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HELP regarding Employment PASS

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Postby v4jr4 » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 1:38 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:For the record, your Masters degree and 80 cents will get you a cup of coffee and the MOM canteen, and that's about all. Your employment pass will be issued based on your basic qualifications & experience, nothing more. However, you employer might want more but as far as the MOM is concerned, your basic degree is all that they will look at unless it's on an appeal maybe. But you have to get rejected first, so don't sweat it until you need to.


There's another rumor that the university rank will be put under consideration as well. At another forum, there's a thread mentions that most of the graduates students from B University (I don't spill the name since it's only a rumor) fail to apply the employment pass due to some person use fake certificates from B university, and MOM doesn't feel happy about this.

Personally, I think it's only the matter of quota, experience, and GPA. There again, it's still a rumor *grab popcorn and kopi-o* :lol:
Last edited by v4jr4 on Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Jon Snow » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 1:46 pm

the lynx wrote:
Jon Snow wrote:
the lynx wrote:
Jon Snow wrote:Hi

I'm Indian , graduate, and post graduate of Calcutta University. The Japanese company that hired me is about to establish a new office in Singapore.

My questions are regarding the EP.

The problem is that my university takes 1 year to issue the original Master of Science degree and in the meantime they have provided me with a provisional Master of Science degree that has the same text as the original , only difference being the word "provisional" on it.

So will this provisional degree be enough to get me a visa ? I have all other documents (mark sheets etc ) in order , and available.

In the event that it doesn't work out I can see from the MoM website that qualification necessary is a tertiary degree , meaning a colege graduation degree.

I do have my original Bachelors degree ( college graduation ) available , also issued by the University of Calcutta. All documents related to the Bachelors degree are also in order.

So in the event that they reject my visa on basis of provisional degree not being sufficient will I get through on the Bachelors degree ?

Added info : I'm a fresher , so no working experience.
My salary will be in the range of 6000- 6500 S$ so that would mean a P2 pass , right ?

Please help , thanks in advance


I can't speak as someone with masters but I can vouch that provisional degrees are acceptable, depending on your case officer.

I know of few people who have provisional bachelor's degree at time of application and their case officers approved them. And I have also heard of others (with provisional bachelor's degree) who were told by their officers that these were not acceptable.

And I do not know if times have changed this rule. The last time I observed this was 2010.


Rules are much stricter now but I do have original Bachelor's degree , my Master's is provisional. I know SMS said that Master's is worthless but for some reason my employers are more concerned about it ( granted they too are new to Singapore rules)

Anyway thanks for the reply man , at this point things are pretty much out of my hand , this is all for my peace of mind only.

thanks again

If that is the case, follow SMS's advice and apply using your bachelor's degree. After all, both master's and bachelor's degree will give you EP for sure (ok maybe S Pass also) and only your salary will determine your type of EP (P1, P2 or Q1).


Except i'm not applying , the company is , on my behalf. And I am going to send them both documents , Bachelors and Masters.

In any case I just received the application form outline from the company , it seems we have to mention both highest and second highest degree so I guess we'll have to provide certificates to back both up which basically means that both my Bachelors (original) and Masters ( provisional) degree will be submitted with the application. At least that's my interpretation.





v4jr4 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:For the record, your Masters degree and 80 cents will get you a cup of coffee and the MOM canteen, and that's about all. Your employment pass will be issued based on your basic qualifications & experience, nothing more. However, you employer might want more but as far as the MOM is concerned, your basic degree is all that they will look at unless it's on an appeal maybe. But you have to get rejected first, so don't sweat it until you need to.


There's another rumor that the university rank will be put under consideration as well


I don't think that's a rumour. The MoM website says that the reputation of the university matters and they have a preferred university list or something against which they tally the applicant's university.

Another interesting thread I recently read had an applicant whose EP had been rejected because she had misspelt the name of her university on the form.

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Re: HELP regarding Employment PASS

Postby revhappy » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 2:22 pm

Saint wrote:
Jon Snow wrote:Added info : I'm a fresher , so no working experience. My salary will be in the range of 6000- 6500 S$ so that would mean a P2 pass , right ?

Please help , thanks in advance


They are most likely going to reject just on this and tell the company to employ one of the many Singaporean freshers


Not all companies are created equal. They can tell that to a mom and pop company but not to Financial or a Semicon Giant that is planning to set up shop here. They are more far sighted than that.
Last edited by revhappy on Wed, 15 Aug 2012 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby nouveaulife » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 2:22 pm

I have a question about the bolded sentence of your post. Does this mean that only the bachelor's qualifications matter?

What if someone has a PhD (from a reputable university in North America) and the job requires a PhD? And the employer is without any doubt established and credible?

MoM still does not care and looks at only the "basic degree"?

Here is the thing. My bachelor's degree is not on MoM's list of "preferred" universities. But my Masters and PhD degrees definitely are.

Implications?

(Addition: So I just took a look at the EP/S Pass application form from the MOM website. Supposing it is up to date, it only asks for the 2 highest qualifications of the applicant. So I guess I need not worry then, since they won't even need to know about my "basic degree"?)


sundaymorningstaple wrote:For the record, your Masters degree and 80 cents will get you a cup of coffee and the MOM canteen, and that's about all. Your employment pass will be issued based on your basic qualifications & experience, nothing more. However, you employer might want more but as far as the MOM is concerned, your basic degree is all that they will look at unless it's on an appeal maybe. But you have to get rejected first, so don't sweat it until you need to.

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Re: HELP regarding Employment PASS

Postby Jon Snow » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:03 pm

I know of few people who have provisional bachelor's degree at time of application and their case officers approved them. And I have also heard of others (with provisional bachelor's degree) who were told by their officers that these were not acceptable.

And I do not know if times have changed this rule. The last time I observed this was 2010.


By the way does this mean that they actually give you a reason when and if they reject your application because i'd heard that they don't ?[/i]

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:03 pm

Obviously, they would also expect a little common sense to be used. If your university is on their list, then the B degree is all that will be needed (along with the correct salary range of course) TO GET THE EMPLOYMENT PASS. This is, obviously left open so that the MOM can tighten up the criteria later if necessary. As of this moment, ranking IS NOT being used, although it may have been discussed. The above is for MOM.

Obviously, if your basic degree isn't on there but your higher degrees are recognized, this will supplant the original basic degree, provided which the relevant experience is there. Having a PhDs or Masters without relevant experience is not much more useful than a B Fresher if you are trying to sell your self to companies who would have to justify to the government why they need a green foreigner without experience when the local population is screaming to reduce the foreign population.

However, the position may well have the requirements for a PhD or Masters. Without experience, I would wonder why though. The actual requirements for the position are up to the Company and have little bearing on the EP. In fact, the highest EP, the P1 EP doesn't even require a B. degree let alone a M or PhD. All it requires it a company to be willing to pay a high enough salary and the employee to have relevant experience to the positions being applied for.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:08 pm

Jon, I believe they are giving rudimentary explanations but nothing that you can pin on them. They do this to keep lots of people from "fabricating" custom made applications to try to "trick" or "massage" their applications in order to obtain an EP. We get them on here all the time asking someone who was successful what exactly the put on their Applications. No two applications are the same and each and every tic is given a certain weightage and probably combinations of tics are given weightage as well. MOM keeps that information, like ICA, very close to their collective chests. It's understandable why if you read enough of the thread on this forum. :roll:

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Postby v4jr4 » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:19 pm

Jon Snow wrote:whether a provisional degree certificate is considered at par with its original counterpart by the MoM?


I don't see any reason for MoM to reject the request for employment pass just because it's a provisional certificate. MoM can double check with the university, or they will ask some additional documents.

There again, as per SMS's comment: "Your employment pass will be issued based on your basic qualifications & experience, nothing more."

Provisional or not, there are always some methods to check. But that's not the only thing MoM will consider :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:32 pm

For the record, Distance Learning degrees are coming under fire at MOM as so many of them are substandard at best and just degree mills at worst. What we are finding at the moment is those who had gotten S passes in the past with distance learning degrees are being rejected on renewal as no longer meeting the criteria for the S pass. Trying to find it spelled out, however, is a different issue as MOM will NOT divulge it's criteria. All we have is anecdotal evidence which in my case is 1st hand as I have over 40 S pass holders and have lost 4 in the last couple of months on renewals "no longer meet the minimum requirement for a S pass. Please do not bother to appeal". Pretty final, that.

It also means that they will not be able to apply at any other company either as it a failure on their part and not a quota issue with the employer. It's something that everybody better get used to. I also had one earlier this year downgraded from an EP to an S pass. There are lots of P2s being downgraded to Q passes as well. It's getting pretty rough out there and even if you are successful now, it doesn't mean you'll be successful on the next renewal as they continually tight up the criteria.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:36 pm

v4jr4, I've seen applications rejected with transcript submitted, as they want to see the Sheepskin as it were. (looking perhaps for forgeries?) The fact that they could check with the universities is not the problem. They will do that anyway. But if the applicant cannot give them what they ask for specifically, then what does that say about the applicant's ability to follow instructions and should they let in somebody that cannot?

I'm not trying to be a hardarse, but I do try to look at everything from the GOV P.O.V.. In order to give valid advice here rather than just blowing smoke up the OP's, we have to be this way.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:37 pm

Remember, the government is looking for ways to reject applications. Don't give them one.

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Postby nouveaulife » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:42 pm

If the distance learning degree warning were in any way directed towards me, let it be known that all my degrees are "normal" degrees. But thanks for the caveat though.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:45 pm

nouveaulife wrote:If the distance learning degree warning were in any way directed towards me, let it be known that all my degrees are "normal" degrees. But thanks for the caveat though.


Don't worry, it's not you. We've had people here touting their masters (ugh) but a number of them from shady, distance-only institutions.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:55 pm

Nope, not directed at anybody in particular. Out there for general knowledge. :wink:

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Postby v4jr4 » Wed, 15 Aug 2012 3:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:v4jr4, I've seen applications rejected with transcript submitted, as they want to see the Sheepskin as it were. (looking perhaps for forgeries?) The fact that they could check with the universities is not the problem. They will do that anyway. But if the applicant cannot give them what they ask for specifically, then what does that say about the applicant's ability to follow instructions and should they let in somebody that cannot?

I'm not trying to be a hardarse, but I do try to look at everything from the GOV P.O.V.. In order to give valid advice here rather than just blowing smoke up the OP's, we have to be this way.


It does make sense. My application was rejected once due to the name in college certificate is different with the name in my birth certificate. They asked for an additional document to explain about it. I gave it to them, and they approved.

And there's another story about a new colleague, with good skills (in IT, a lot of places will hire someone will skills related with JAVA) and better salary (than mine). Strangely to say, MoM rejected his application. It was indeed a mystery for us. To some extend, we could only think that it's due to the reputation of his university. On the 2nd attempt, MoM didn't give approval as well. In the end, he gave up.


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