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Microsoft announces a new email platform

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Postby Mexikaner » Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:14 am

thank you curious george! that did it...

luckily no one had taken my username...

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 03 Aug 2012 4:58 pm

What is it that good about having an e-mail address in the domain owned by Microsoft? I can see more disadvantages then advantages to be frank.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 03 Aug 2012 5:23 pm

x9200 wrote:What is it that good about having an e-mail address in the domain owned by Microsoft? I can see more disadvantages then advantages to be frank.


+1. I like my own domain.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 03 Aug 2012 5:32 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:What is it that good about having an e-mail address in the domain owned by Microsoft? I can see more disadvantages then advantages to be frank.


+1. I like my own domain.


+1. I like my own domain too.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:21 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:What is it that good about having an e-mail address in the domain owned by Microsoft? I can see more disadvantages then advantages to be frank.


+1. I like my own domain.


EriesNest.com





:cool:

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Postby curiousgeorge » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:40 am

x9200 wrote:What is it that good about having an e-mail address in the domain owned by Microsoft? I can see more disadvantages then advantages to be frank.


Its not just an email address in a domain owned by Microsoft. Its a login to a Microsoft Account.

* It's a Microsoft Account that give 7GB of Skydrive storage space (that can function as cloud backup for docs on PCs or Mac) and the cheapest additional cloud storage of any major service (still 25GB free if you used it before the reduced limit)
* Its a calendar service, synced with your phone, tablet, home PC and work PC
* Its a contacts database, synced with your phone, tablet, home and work PCs
* Its a login to Xbox - and all the Microsoft services thereon
* Its a login to Windows Phone, and your documents, contacts, emails, calendar, Xbox live games and zunepass (xbox music & Video)
* Its a login to ZunePass - unlimited music downloads for a miserly annual fee
* Its a login to online Office, for Excel, Word, Powerpoint and Onenote, all syncronised across your PC, phone, tablet
* Its about to be a Window to SmartGlass (TM)
* Its a passport to blogging services
* Its a logon to free Messenger services, available on PC, Tablet, Phones of all varieties
* Its an aggregator of Social Media such as Facebook, Skype, Twitter contacts
* Its an aggregator of Media services, such as Flickr etc
* Its a provider of simple Photo Gallery and Movie Making services.
* Its a gateway to Office 2013s cloud integration for sharing and storage



So yeah, hope your personal domain offer all that.

Remind me of the disadvantages again?

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 7:44 am

curiousgeorge wrote:Remind me of the disadvantages again?

Probably the main (from an average end user perspective) and surely going to happen rather sooner than later: "e-mail" banned (not necessarily officially) by many reputable service providers. This was the case of hotmail, aol and a few such even if you were unaware of it.
And yes, an individually self-managed personal domain account combined with a webhosting can give you much, much more as it offers one basic thing none of the product for the masses will ever give you - the flexibility and freedom of choice. Besides, not everybody relies on the Microsoft products and many have strong reservation (privacy) to let such giants to handle your personal data turning some of your "advantage" points into disadvantage.

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Postby curiousgeorge » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 9:57 am

x9200 wrote:
curiousgeorge wrote:Remind me of the disadvantages again?

Probably the main (from an average end user perspective) and surely going to happen rather sooner than later: "e-mail" banned (not necessarily officially) by many reputable service providers. This was the case of hotmail, aol and a few such even if you were unaware of it.
And yes, an individually self-managed personal domain account combined with a webhosting can give you much, much more as it offers one basic thing none of the product for the masses will ever give you - the flexibility and freedom of choice. Besides, not everybody relies on the Microsoft products and many have strong reservation (privacy) to let such giants to handle your personal data turning some of your "advantage" points into disadvantage.


Lol, true, about 15 years ago. And as a result all these services developed cross-checks to avoid bots spamming emails. That's been a non-issue for over a decade...if you take a look out of the tech door, you'll see that times have changed ;)

A self-managed domain and webhosting offer you a chance to spend money on these products, sure but how do they offer *more* choice than the free services?!? Even if you have your own domain you *still have the choice of the free services*. Its not an either-or situation. And there isnt a webhost in the world offering the office suites, gaming platforms, music libraries and other services of Microsoft.

And of course, privacy is a key consideration and anyone would be foolish to turn over their most personal data to any other company. Your webhost is more reliable with a better privacy policy than Microsoft? Realistically, emailing a document is no more secure than sharing it in the cloud and cloud sharing reduces internet data loads.

In any case, even with free services you still have a choice to *not* use them for sensitive data. I'm still not seeing the disadvantages.

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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 10:04 am

curiousgeorge wrote:
x9200 wrote:What is it that good about having an e-mail address in the domain owned by Microsoft? I can see more disadvantages then advantages to be frank.


Its not just an email address in a domain owned by Microsoft. Its a login to a Microsoft Account.

* It's a Microsoft Account that give 7GB of Skydrive storage space (that can function as cloud backup for docs on PCs or Mac) and the cheapest additional cloud storage of any major service (still 25GB free if you used it before the reduced limit)
* Its a calendar service, synced with your phone, tablet, home PC and work PC
* Its a contacts database, synced with your phone, tablet, home and work PCs
* Its a login to Xbox - and all the Microsoft services thereon
* Its a login to Windows Phone, and your documents, contacts, emails, calendar, Xbox live games and zunepass (xbox music & Video)
* Its a login to ZunePass - unlimited music downloads for a miserly annual fee
* Its a login to online Office, for Excel, Word, Powerpoint and Onenote, all syncronised across your PC, phone, tablet
* Its about to be a Window to SmartGlass (TM)
* Its a passport to blogging services
* Its a logon to free Messenger services, available on PC, Tablet, Phones of all varieties
* Its an aggregator of Social Media such as Facebook, Skype, Twitter contacts
* Its an aggregator of Media services, such as Flickr etc
* Its a provider of simple Photo Gallery and Movie Making services.
* Its a gateway to Office 2013s cloud integration for sharing and storage



So yeah, hope your personal domain offer all that.

Remind me of the disadvantages again?


Did you copy and paste that, or did you actually type that all out with a straight face?

Everything bullet point you mention has vastly superior alternatives, is available to everyone with any email address anyway, or is a string of Dilbert-esque marketing terms strung together that have absolutely no meaning to anyone in the real world. ("aggregator of Social Media", " passport to blogging services"?? Really?) And Zune? Seriously?

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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 10:11 am

curiousgeorge wrote:
x9200 wrote:
curiousgeorge wrote:Remind me of the disadvantages again?

Probably the main (from an average end user perspective) and surely going to happen rather sooner than later: "e-mail" banned (not necessarily officially) by many reputable service providers. This was the case of hotmail, aol and a few such even if you were unaware of it.
And yes, an individually self-managed personal domain account combined with a webhosting can give you much, much more as it offers one basic thing none of the product for the masses will ever give you - the flexibility and freedom of choice. Besides, not everybody relies on the Microsoft products and many have strong reservation (privacy) to let such giants to handle your personal data turning some of your "advantage" points into disadvantage.


Lol, true, about 15 years ago. And as a result all these services developed cross-checks to avoid bots spamming emails. That's been a non-issue for over a decade...if you take a look out of the tech door, you'll see that times have changed ;)

A self-managed domain and webhosting offer you a chance to spend money on these products, sure but how do they offer *more* choice than the free services?!? Even if you have your own domain you *still have the choice of the free services*. Its not an either-or situation. And there isnt a webhost in the world offering the office suites, gaming platforms, music libraries and other services of Microsoft.

And of course, privacy is a key consideration and anyone would be foolish to turn over their most personal data to any other company. Your webhost is more reliable with a better privacy policy than Microsoft? Realistically, emailing a document is no more secure than sharing it in the cloud and cloud sharing reduces internet data loads.

In any case, even with free services you still have a choice to *not* use them for sensitive data. I'm still not seeing the disadvantages.


You do know Google will host a domain for you and give you full access to everything they offer for any Google account, right? Which is pretty much everything single thing on your bullet point list that anyone uses, except XBox. But then if you buy an Xbox, you can always still make an account to use it. It's not like your xbox needs to be integrated into every aspect of your life.

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Postby nakatago » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 10:29 am

Let Microsoft have its day. Knowing Google, they'll ramp things up. Competition is good for us.





But Zune?! Really?!?!

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Postby curiousgeorge » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 10:38 am

zzm9980 wrote:
Did you copy and paste that, or did you actually type that all out with a straight face?

Everything bullet point you mention has vastly superior alternatives, is available to everyone with any email address anyway, or is a string of Dilbert-esque marketing terms strung together that have absolutely no meaning to anyone in the real world. ("aggregator of Social Media", " passport to blogging services"?? Really?) And Zune? Seriously?


I notice you quickly edited your easily refutable points in red there ;)

I disagree on the "vastly superior" alternatives. The cohesion in the Microsoft Account is far beyond what any other provider is doing.

I load Win8 on my tablet, login with my Microsoft Account (MA) and in seconds all my emails, calendar, contacts, docs, pictures, videos etc are there on my tablet. I don't need to install anything else, no more apps, no other accounts, nothing. It just works.

Then I open the box on a new Windows Phone, log in with my MA and guess what? Yup, everything I have on my PC and tablet *is already right there on my phone*.

Including my Facebook account, my Twitter account, my Skype account my LinkedIn account. I don't *need* any other apps to use those services, I can access them right from the contacts/messaging/etc features on the PC/tablet/phone. Nobody else does this on this kind of integrated scale.

And yeah, I'm a geek, I ran an iPad, iPhone and still have and Android (Jellybean) tablet so I do keep on top of everybody's offerings.


zzm9980 wrote:...marketing terms strung together that have absolutely no meaning to anyone in the real world. ("aggregator of Social Media", " passport to blogging services"?? Really?) And Zune? Seriously?


Ah, but the utility is very impressive when you see it in action - just that most people (like you) dismiss it as Microsoft before they see the utility.

I wrote that list myself, so let me expand.

"aggregator of social media" - so on my PC/tablet/phone (it works the same on all three) I go to contact, select "bob" and within his contact I see his stream. That includes all his facebook, linkedIn, twitter and Live postings from ALL of those services. While you with Android/Apple will have to open, what, FOUR APPS to get all that info. Thats like having to exit and enter via the front door every time you want to walk from the bedroom to the kitchen. Why not take the shortcut?

Similarly, on my own "Me" page, I can post to all of those site simultaneously. I don't need an app to do it. Its just there, right in the features of the OS. (Now you're obliged to argue that you *like* to have four apps running and switching between then to achieve the same result, copying and pasting your pics/comments/logins to all your networks, right?)

"passport to blogging services" see the following from Wiki: Windows Live Writer, developed by Microsoft, is a desktop blog-publishing application that is part of the Windows Live range of products. It features WYSIWYG authoring, photo-publishing and map-publishing functionality, and is currently compatible with Windows Live Spaces, SharePoint blogs, Blogger, LiveJournal, TypePad, WordPress, Telligent Community, PBlogs.gr, JournalHome, the MetaWeblog API, the Movable Type API, Blogengine, Squarespace, and all blogs that support RSD (Really Simple Discoverability).

Tell me the superior alternatives that are so agnostic?

Zune Renamed Xbox Music& Video to coincide with Win8 launch. Yep, seriously. Its insanely more developed than iTunes. Just because people don't use it, doesn't mean its not a great product. Let me give aan example:
I pay $100 per year for *unlimited music downloads* on the zune service. I hear a song on the radio I like and pick up my phone, press Bing > Audio and seconds later the phone takes me to the Zune Marketplace and I click to download the album. Wow, UNLIMITED ALBUMS FOR FREE IN THREE CLICKS! Yeah, not seeing that on iTunes, they've been talking about it for years but still no dice. And sure, there are other services for unlimited music, but none that integrate with your OS like Zune - your downloaded music is then available on your PC, tablet and phone without any further action.

I work in entertainment and deal with a variety of bands every week, and for each band I can download a couple of their albums to familiarise myself. Of course, this isn't worth it if you dont buy >$100 of music a year, but for aficionados, its the best deal there is.

And to your SmartGlass comment about vaporware you deleted - you can educate yourself at http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/micr ... -hands-on/


And no copy and paste from me, I wrote it all with a very straight face. Just because *you* don't want an outlook.com email address doesn't mean that Microsoft aren't offering a suite of incredibly powerful, integrated tools that the likes of Apple and Google haven't encompassed. Sure, they have similar piecemeal offerings, but neither of them cover the breadth of scope that MS does.

Your lack of familiarity doesn't make everything else superior.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 10:44 am

curiousgeorge wrote:
Lol, true, about 15 years ago. And as a result all these services developed cross-checks to avoid bots spamming emails. That's been a non-issue for over a decade...if you take a look out of the tech door, you'll see that times have changed ;)

No, not really, got better camouflaged I would say :)

A self-managed domain and webhosting offer you a chance to spend money on these products, sure but how do they offer *more* choice than the free services?!? Even if you have your own domain you *still have the choice of the free services*. Its not an either-or situation. And there isnt a webhost in the world offering the office suites, gaming platforms, music libraries and other services of Microsoft.

If you use something specific to Microsoft then sure, no choice and probably a good choice to go there but I don't. Freedom of choice on a much lower level. Some examples:
Can you create your own forum with the M$ thing?
Do you have freedom to chose the forum platform?
Can you use different web based mailing agents?
Can you handle multiple domain names?
Can you manage a group of e-mails?
7GB storage enough for your documents back up?
How many data bases it can handle?
Can you create your own web pages not based on any templates?
Php? Rubby? SQL, etc?
Can you just install any of the popular web based platforms like jumla, wordpress, zencard, gallery etc etc etc?

These above being only a fraction because you are limited by hardware resources rather than high level applications of predetermined packages. I.e. I have just a shell account and can install any "package" that fits the limits of my account. It is a situation where you have finalized limited products vs tools to install products you want. And this whole freedom I get for something like $60 a year and everybody knows that nothing is for free :)


And of course, privacy is a key consideration and anyone would be foolish to turn over their most personal data to any other company. Your webhost is more reliable with a better privacy policy than Microsoft? Realistically, emailing a document is no more secure than sharing it in the cloud and cloud sharing reduces internet data loads.

It is more reliable and secure because they provide only a hardware platform and some basic system services (including backup) and I can use whatever I find appropriate to send, store or encrypt my data. I can chose the algorithm, key-strengths, number and location of the copies, distribution network... multiple choices vs single ones.

In any case, even with free services you still have a choice to *not* use them for sensitive data. I'm still not seeing the disadvantages.

In principle yes, but then I would rather have something overall secure than have to think about potential issue with every document I store or send. This include files stored locally as Microsoft itself is not really the name synonymous to security and reliability. Viruses, worms, trojans, all rather seldom showing up in the other systems.

I would say the bottom line is like always in this kind of discussions, simplicity and ease of use of the M$ products (again, as per average Joe) but the rudimental security and flexibility is never there. It can not be :)


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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 04 Aug 2012 11:09 am

curiousgeorge wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
Did you copy and paste that, or did you actually type that all out with a straight face?

Everything bullet point you mention has vastly superior alternatives, is available to everyone with any email address anyway, or is a string of Dilbert-esque marketing terms strung together that have absolutely no meaning to anyone in the real world. ("aggregator of Social Media", " passport to blogging services"?? Really?) And Zune? Seriously?


I notice you quickly edited your easily refutable points in red there ;)
I did, but mostly because I got halfway through and gave up :P I shouldn't have posted it in the first place, I do that a lot though

I disagree on the "vastly superior" alternatives. The cohesion in the Microsoft Account is far beyond what any other provider is doing.

I load Win8 on my tablet, login with my Microsoft Account (MA) and in seconds all my emails, calendar, contacts, docs, pictures, videos etc are there on my tablet. I don't need to install anything else, no more apps, no other accounts, nothing. It just works.

Then I open the box on a new Windows Phone, log in with my MA and guess what? Yup, everything I have on my PC and tablet *is already right there on my phone*.

Including my Facebook account, my Twitter account, my Skype account my LinkedIn account. I don't *need* any other apps to use those services, I can access them right from the contacts/messaging/etc features on the PC/tablet/phone. Nobody else does this on this kind of integrated scale.

Except the Skype and LinkedIn, you get the same experience if you use a Mac, iCloud, and iOS devices. Or, If you use all of the Google stuff, your OS doesn't even matter. And honestly I never saw Skype or LinkedIn as big social media players, so my interest in the ability to interact with them as such is very minimal. I use skype to make calls to specific other people who use Skype, and LinkedIn to keep a rough web of connections to former coworkers and industry contacts. I don't socialize on it :/

And yeah, I'm a geek, I ran an iPad, iPhone and still have and Android (Jellybean) tablet so I do keep on top of everybody's offerings.


zzm9980 wrote:...marketing terms strung together that have absolutely no meaning to anyone in the real world. ("aggregator of Social Media", " passport to blogging services"?? Really?) And Zune? Seriously?


Ah, but the utility is very impressive when you see it in action - just that most people (like you) dismiss it as Microsoft before they see the utility.

I wrote that list myself, so let me expand.

"aggregator of social media" - so on my PC/tablet/phone (it works the same on all three) I go to contact, select "bob" and within his contact I see his stream. That includes all his facebook, linkedIn, twitter and Live postings from ALL of those services. While you with Android/Apple will have to open, what, FOUR APPS to get all that info. Thats like having to exit and enter via the front door every time you want to walk from the bedroom to the kitchen. Why not take the shortcut?

Similarly, on my own "Me" page, I can post to all of those site simultaneously. I don't need an app to do it. Its just there, right in the features of the OS. (Now you're obliged to argue that you *like* to have four apps running and switching between then to achieve the same result, copying and pasting your pics/comments/logins to all your networks, right?)

The problem is though those services (especially Twitter and Facebook) arbitrarily limit what you can do/see from third party clients. Sure you get all of the services into one spot, but you're limited in your ability to function on all of them.

"passport to blogging services" see the following from Wiki: Windows Live Writer, developed by Microsoft, is a desktop blog-publishing application that is part of the Windows Live range of products. It features WYSIWYG authoring, photo-publishing and map-publishing functionality, and is currently compatible with Windows Live Spaces, SharePoint blogs, Blogger, LiveJournal, TypePad, WordPress, Telligent Community, PBlogs.gr, JournalHome, the MetaWeblog API, the Movable Type API, Blogengine, Squarespace, and all blogs that support RSD (Really Simple Discoverability).

I'll admit I didn't know they had compatibility with so many different products. I assumed it was some silly 'MS Live Blogs' only service. I'm not a blogger, but honestly how many bloggers need unified access to so many different platforms? I would assume a blogger picks one and uses it, and then picks the best client for that platform.

Tell me the superior alternatives that are so agnostic?

Zune Renamed Xbox Music& Video to coincide with Win8 launch. Yep, seriously. Its insanely more developed than iTunes. Just because people don't use it, doesn't mean its not a great product. Let me give aan example:
I pay $100 per year for *unlimited music downloads* on the zune service. I hear a song on the radio I like and pick up my phone, press Bing > Audio and seconds later the phone takes me to the Zune Marketplace and I click to download the album. Wow, UNLIMITED ALBUMS FOR FREE IN THREE CLICKS! Yeah, not seeing that on iTunes, they've been talking about it for years but still no dice. And sure, there are other services for unlimited music, but none that integrate with your OS like Zune - your downloaded music is then available on your PC, tablet and phone without any further action.

Is this music DRM free though? Can I play it on any device, with any app? What happens to it if I don't pay that $100 a year?

I work in entertainment and deal with a variety of bands every week, and for each band I can download a couple of their albums to familiarise myself. Of course, this isn't worth it if you dont buy >$100 of music a year, but for aficionados, its the best deal there is.

And to your SmartGlass comment about vaporware you deleted - you can educate yourself at http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/micr ... -hands-on/

Yes, I googled it myself which is why I removed the comment. Doesn't seem that huge to me.

And no copy and paste from me, I wrote it all with a very straight face. Just because *you* don't want an outlook.com email address doesn't mean that Microsoft aren't offering a suite of incredibly powerful, integrated tools that the likes of Apple and Google haven't encompassed. Sure, they have similar piecemeal offerings, but neither of them cover the breadth of scope that MS does.

Your lack of familiarity doesn't make everything else superior.


Sorry for the inline comments above. I hate reading them myself, they're a bitch to reply to.

While I'll yield a point or two to you as I have above, it's not drastically better than any alternative unless you're heavily invested into a Microsoft-only ecosystem. And this argument started by people saying they don't see the reason to switch from what they already have, which is something you *can't* do with the MS lifestyle/workflow you describe: use your own domain. Google lets you. Apple used to let you with MobileMe, and may still with iCloud. I don't know. But the point is, there are still no compelling reasons to switch or even choose the MS option for anyone who isn't 100% on MS for everything in their lives, or starting completely from scratch. And really, in this world of Androids and iPhone/pads everywhere, who *is* in either situation?

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Postby curiousgeorge » Sun, 05 Aug 2012 9:33 am

x9200 wrote:
curiousgeorge wrote:
Lol, true, about 15 years ago. And as a result all these services developed cross-checks to avoid bots spamming emails. That's been a non-issue for over a decade...if you take a look out of the tech door, you'll see that times have changed ;)

No, not really, got better camouflaged I would say :)

A self-managed domain and webhosting offer you a chance to spend money on these products, sure but how do they offer *more* choice than the free services?!? Even if you have your own domain you *still have the choice of the free services*. Its not an either-or situation. And there isnt a webhost in the world offering the office suites, gaming platforms, music libraries and other services of Microsoft.

If you use something specific to Microsoft then sure, no choice and probably a good choice to go there but I don't. Freedom of choice on a much lower level. Some examples:
Can you create your own forum with the M$ thing?
Do you have freedom to chose the forum platform?
Can you use different web based mailing agents?
Can you handle multiple domain names?
Can you manage a group of e-mails?
7GB storage enough for your documents back up?
How many data bases it can handle?
Can you create your own web pages not based on any templates?
Php? Rubby? SQL, etc?
Can you just install any of the popular web based platforms like jumla, wordpress, zencard, gallery etc etc etc?

These above being only a fraction because you are limited by hardware resources rather than high level applications of predetermined packages. I.e. I have just a shell account and can install any "package" that fits the limits of my account. It is a situation where you have finalized limited products vs tools to install products you want. And this whole freedom I get for something like $60 a year and everybody knows that nothing is for free :)


And of course, privacy is a key consideration and anyone would be foolish to turn over their most personal data to any other company. Your webhost is more reliable with a better privacy policy than Microsoft? Realistically, emailing a document is no more secure than sharing it in the cloud and cloud sharing reduces internet data loads.

It is more reliable and secure because they provide only a hardware platform and some basic system services (including backup) and I can use whatever I find appropriate to send, store or encrypt my data. I can chose the algorithm, key-strengths, number and location of the copies, distribution network... multiple choices vs single ones.

In any case, even with free services you still have a choice to *not* use them for sensitive data. I'm still not seeing the disadvantages.

In principle yes, but then I would rather have something overall secure than have to think about potential issue with every document I store or send. This include files stored locally as Microsoft itself is not really the name synonymous to security and reliability. Viruses, worms, trojans, all rather seldom showing up in the other systems.

I would say the bottom line is like always in this kind of discussions, simplicity and ease of use of the M$ products (again, as per average Joe) but the rudimental security and flexibility is never there. It can not be :)



I chuckled reading that. Really, how many average Joe's need to utilise that list of services? Come on, you're into professional level domain hosting there, which is not comparable to a consumer account.


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