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SPR + GF

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SPR + GF

Postby harry_potter » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:15 am

Hi Expats,

I am a male British national and a Singapore PR.

I've been in a relationship with a Vietnamese female for the past 6 months.

This is a serious relationship and we have lived together for the entire 6 months.

The way we have managed to live together is by her flying to Singapore on a tourist visa and staying with me for 30 days, we then both fly to Vietnam and stay there for a weekend and then both fly back to Singapore together giving her another 30 days tourist visa. We have done this 6 times already. It's very inconvenient and is also costing me a fortune. The last time we did this she was detained by Singapore immigration and treated like scum. She was thrown in to a room with a bunch of other Vietnamese girls from the same flight and was made to wait hours before they let her through, without any explaination as to why she was stopped or an apology.

My question is, is there an easier way to do this? Any idea why immigration stopped her? And is there a chance that if we continue to do it this way immagration might refuse her entry? Do they have any right to refuse her entry? She is from an ASEAN country and has not done anything wrong.

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Re: SPR + GF

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:06 am

harry_potter wrote:Hi Expats,

I am a male British national and a Singapore PR.

I've been in a relationship with a Vietnamese female for the past 6 months.

This is a serious relationship and we have lived together for the entire 6 months.

The way we have managed to live together is by her flying to Singapore on a tourist visa and staying with me for 30 days, we then both fly to Vietnam and stay there for a weekend and then both fly back to Singapore together giving her another 30 days tourist visa. We have done this 6 times already. It's very inconvenient and is also costing me a fortune. The last time we did this she was detained by Singapore immigration and treated like scum. She was thrown in to a room with a bunch of other Vietnamese girls from the same flight and was made to wait hours before they let her through, without any explaination as to why she was stopped or an apology.

My question is, is there an easier way to do this?

Yeah. Marry her.

Any idea why immigration stopped her?

Living in Singapore without a valid residency visa

And is there a chance that if we continue to do it this way immagration might refuse her entry?

I reckon she will be refused entry on the next trip as they have already spotted the ruse.

Do they have any right to refuse her entry?

Yes.

She is from an ASEAN country and has not done anything wrong.

Yes she has. She is "de facto" living in Singapore without viable means of support nor with a residency visa.



Additionally, you are harbouring a tourist in private housing which is also against the law. So you could also be on the chopping block if everything comes to a head. It's against the law for anybody to give lodging to someone other than a relative who doesn't have a residency visa of some sort. A social visit pass is not a residency visa.

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Re: SPR + GF

Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13 am

harry_potter wrote: The last time we did this she was detained by Singapore immigration and treated like scum. She was thrown in to a room with a bunch of other Vietnamese girls from the same flight and was made to wait hours before they let her through, without any explaination as to why she was stopped or an apology.

My question is, is there an easier way to do this? Any idea why immigration stopped her? And is there a chance that if we continue to do it this way immagration might refuse her entry? Do they have any right to refuse her entry? She is from an ASEAN country and has not done anything wrong.


Yes, they have every right. She was stopped because she's violating immigration policies. Even if she wasn't violating policies, they can detain and refuse entry for any reason. She has no rights at a border crossing. If ICA had intended for her to stay in Singapore for six months there would be a six month visitors pass available for her.

Your best legal option to keep her in the country is to marry her and apply for an LTVP. As long as your income is high enough, shouldn't be a big deal unless she's irrevocably pissed off ICA already. But then if the cost of flying to/from Vietnam is defined as a "fortune" by you, your income might not be sufficient.

Other options- Did they take her biometrics (finger prints) while in that room? If not, the local justice office in Vietnam (Tư pháp) will gladly give her another passport. However, new clean passports from young Vietnamese women are also often a red flag to ICA to take her in and do biometrics for future tracking.

Honestly, I'd bet you the only reason she got in the first five times with minimal hassle was due to being with an Ang Moh PR.

Anecdotally, my wife is Vietnamese. We've had plenty of family and friend visitors. Even when I've written nice letters explaining who I was (my name, FIN, job, salary, address, etc), who the visitor was (Wife's cousin, sister, etc), and how long they'd be staying, they've still been detained and had biometrics taken. The only Vietnamese female who's come through alone without hassle was her mother (60+ yrs old). Those that come through escorted by us get through just fine. But we've never taken the same person through monthly six months in a row...

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Postby harry_potter » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:27 pm

I don't see what my income has to do with this. My income is OK. It depends what you mean by "your income might not be sufficient".

Whilst I do love her very much, marrying her after just 6 months so I can beat the system is not appropriate. It is too soon. She has not yet met my family. Also, this is the 21st century, many people don't believe they need to marry these days.

Yes, they did take her fingerprints when they threw her in to the room like a criminal.

Maybe I just need to take her back to UK, we let anyone in there. It's a free for all. A UK passport is about as valuable as a 10 dollar SingTel top up, which is exactly why I left. How ironic that I am now asking facing this problem :(

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:42 pm

harry_potter wrote:I don't see what my income has to do with this. My income is OK. It depends what you mean by "your income might not be sufficient".

ICA will judge your ability to support a dependent by your income level. There are Singaporeans with foreign spouses that cannot stay in Singapore and have the same problem you do. You already likely got preferential treatment because of your skin color getting her in on six SVPs in a row.

harry_potter wrote:Also, this is the 21st century, many people don't believe they need to marry these days..


Singapore is a conservative society. They don't think like you. They want young people to marry and have >2.1 children. They also want them to be ethnically Chinese. You don't fit into their plans sadly.

harry_potter wrote:Yes, they did take her fingerprints when they threw her in to the room like a criminal.


She's going to be watched very carefully now every time she enters.

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Postby v4jr4 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:48 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
harry_potter wrote:Also, this is the 21st century, many people don't believe they need to marry these days..


Singapore is a conservative society. They don't think like you. They want young people to marry and have >2.1 children. They also want them to be ethnically Chinese. You don't fit into their plans sadly.



Birth rate is going down, while expenses are going up. Now, I wonder if gahmen sets a balanced race ratio, or they prefer to set higher percentage for a certain ethnic?

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Postby Saint » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:49 pm

What your GF and you have done over last 6 months was bound to have set off alarm bells eventually. I'm surprised she got away with it for so long without getting pulled aside for questioning. Don't take this the wrong way but without doubt your GF's visiting pattern has flagged her as a possible working girl. The majority of girls flying in on 30 day visitor passes are working girls.
Last edited by Saint on Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby v4jr4 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:02 pm

Reminds me about someone that I know from Indonesia. He stayed in Singapore for 1 month, went back to Jakarta for 1 week, and flew to Singapore again. And the result? The immigration kicked him back to Jakarta without hesitation. The reason? He "accidentally" said "looking for a job" on the 2nd visit.

I don't know what's harry_potter's GF said to immigration staff during that 6 times, but talking about luck . . .

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:06 pm

v4jr4 wrote:Reminds me about someone that I know from Indonesia. He stayed in Singapore for 1 month, went back to Jakarta for 1 week, and flew to Singapore again. And the result? The immigration kicked him back to Jakarta without hesitation. The reason? He "accidentally" said "looking for a job" on the 2nd visit.

I don't know what's harry_potter's GF said to immigration staff during that 6 times, but talking about luck . . .


She probably didn't have to say a thing if she walked through ICA with him next to her. Even girls pulled into that office don't generally have to "explain" anything, they just have their bios taken for next time.

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Postby harry_potter » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:40 pm

She probably didn't have to say a thing if she walked through ICA with him next to her. Even girls pulled into that office don't generally have to "explain" anything, they just have their bios taken for next time.


This is correct. Every other time we just walked through without any problem. On the last time she was taken in to a room without explaination. They didn't question her. Just made her wait for a few hours (didn't even give her water) and then took her fingerprints and released her. No dialogue.

Does this mean we will not be able to do this again? Next time she will be refused entry?

As I said, in many ways this very strict policy is admirable. I came from the UK where the borders are literally an open door to anyone that wants to come. Most can't even speak English and have no skills, they park themselves immediately inside the benefits system which is why taxes are so high in the UK. Anyway, that's another story and doesn't help me with my situation.

My choices seem to be:

1. Marry her.
2. Move to a country that has more liberal views on marriage and\or more relaxed immagration policies.

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Postby v4jr4 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:45 pm

It could be prevented if your girlfriend had work pass. But now, I don't think it's possible for her to apply for the work pass.

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Postby harry_potter » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:48 pm

v4jr4 wrote:It could be prevented if your girlfriend had work pass. But now, I don't think it's possible for her to apply for the work pass.


Can I hire her as my house maid?

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Postby v4jr4 » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:56 pm

harry_potter wrote:
v4jr4 wrote:It could be prevented if your girlfriend had work pass. But now, I don't think it's possible for her to apply for the work pass.


Can I hire her as my house maid?


I think it's not that straightforward. The Domestic Helper section may give you some clue, but without the agency? There is one thread about that. As for your case, I don't have any idea what might happen.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 1:59 pm

No. Frankly, the jigs up. You either marry her or go back to the UK but I don't think it's going to happen for your & her here in Singapore. In fact, if you manage to get her in the country again, it will surprise me. As someone mentioned already, it's surprising she has managed to pull it off 6 times already. But with the biometrics in place and photo recognition software now in use at the airport, even with new travel documents, the odds are she will still be caught.

And it's not much use getting your panties in a bunch over it. Don't be a big girls blouse because you cannot have your way. Every country has their own policies. This is Singapore policy. As they are so fond of saying, If you don't like it, you know where the departure gate is at Changi. :-|

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Postby Saint » Thu, 26 Jul 2012 2:01 pm

harry_potter wrote:
v4jr4 wrote:It could be prevented if your girlfriend had work pass. But now, I don't think it's possible for her to apply for the work pass.


Can I hire her as my house maid?


No, Vietnam isn't one of the approved source countries for maids


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