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PR wanna be, would be or will never be. Read this

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
habeebhashim
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Postby habeebhashim » Sun, 27 Jan 2013 6:35 pm

-HH-
Last edited by habeebhashim on Tue, 05 Jan 2016 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby k_as_in_cat » Tue, 12 Feb 2013 2:50 pm

2013 may go on record as having the lowest number of PR approvals. Transport, immigration and housing are at the forefront of public debate, Singaporeans are not happy with the Governments handling of these issues and in response, the Government is keen to show it has the situation under control. Anecdotally, I can report the following:

1. Most Singaporeans will aspire to earn between $5,000 and $12,000 per month. Given the concern that Singaporeans have over jobs and the cost of housing, it is possible that this income band will be 'reserved' by the Goverment for Singaporeans. Thus, in the absence of any special skills or qualifications, applications for any kind of employment pass for jobs in this salary band are going to be subject to a lot of scrutiny.

2. Anyone applying for PR should be able to buy a $2.5M property i.e. needs to be earning $12,000+ pm and willing to invest some capital in Singapore (I heard this from a real estate agent).

3. If you are re-applying for a REP you may want to become more actively involved in your local grassroots community or make some kind of social contribution to Singapore. Despite the blood-letting in various forums, 'Racial Harmony' is still a very important value for Singaporeans.

Although the criteria for PR is 'fluid' and subject to 'case-by-case' review it is clearly going to be a lot harder to obtain and keep PR status in the next few years.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 12 Feb 2013 3:05 pm

#1 is interesting, and seems to be partially corroborated by the new PEP requirements. 5k-12k will be the new P2?

#2 is odd. You really trust a realtor? Why would they have any kind of special inside info over anyone else on the island? How would the government even enforce this? Just by the 12k/month? I know plenty of people who make more than that and couldn't come up with ~$600k cash (down payment, ABSD, etc) they would need to buy a property of that value.

#3 Sounds sketchy. Join PAP, get PR? What about WP? :P

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 12 Feb 2013 3:15 pm

Interesting 1st post there K_As_in_Cat. Let me try and comment on each point.

1. Aspiration is one thing and ability to do the job is totally different. My take on this is, these jobs wont remain in Singapore. They are going abroad along with the FTs. Those indirect low skill jobs that locals were doing will also disappear so locals will become even more unhappy. You are talking as if corporations here dont have a choice. How many pure big local companies exist in Singapore? Negligible. Its only couple of banks, couple of telecom companies and couple of transport companies. Most jobs in the salary range that you are talking about and done by FTs are jobs in MNC companies. These jobs can quickly move and are already moving to other low cost locations.

2. Yeah right! There will be lots of rich people in Indonesia and China, with ill gotten wealth, who can do that. You think all of them will be given PR?

3. Ok.

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Postby k_as_in_cat » Thu, 14 Feb 2013 3:32 pm

Wd40, zzm thanks for your thoughts.

It would be a bit off-topic to get into a debate about who is suitable for what job but it's worth bearing in mind that Singapore has a high standard of academic achievement and although in the past Singapore had to source talent from beyond its shores, nowadays that talent is being cultivated at home. Attitudes are slowly shifting away from the dependence on FT to encouraging Local Talent in key areas. Expat packages are disappearing, local terms are the norm so now there is a situation where companies can choose between LT and FT on a pure cost basis. Hence the surge in Indian nationals in Singapore as they too are well educated, well travelled and cost less than LT and FT from other countries. This is a headache for the Government here because Singaporeans expect wages to keep pace with a rising standard of living. The reality is that since 2007 we have been living in a world of wage deflation (relative to the cost of living) and it seems that nothing short of a global economic miracle is going to change this. Do most people understand this? Of course not, in all parts of the globe, citizens are blaming the immigrants for their problems and in this respect Singapore is no different.

There are many reasons why companies will continue to locate to Singapore not least is the ease of doing business here, serious IP protection and access to the rest of Asia. Personally, air quality, safety and a sensible tax regime are big factors for us choosing to stay here. For many big companies, Singapore is the no-brainer place to be. Sure, there are plenty of LLCs in the region, but these don't boast the quality of life and business opportunities you'll find here.

PR is about residence and residence is not just about tax contributions but also the role played by the individual in Singapore's daily life. What's the point of having PR if all someone does is sit in their club of choice and complain about maids and taxi drivers? That's why I suggest joining a grassroots or voluntary organisation - a chance to get to know your neighbours and for them to get to know you too. So far as I am aware, grassroots is politically neutral.

If you want PR in a hurry, head down to Sentosa Cove and buy a $20-$50 million house - I hear they still come with free PR.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 15 Feb 2013 2:21 am

k_as_in_cat wrote:Wd40, zzm thanks for your thoughts.

It would be a bit off-topic to get into a debate about who is suitable for what job but it's worth bearing in mind that Singapore has a high standard of academic achievement and although in the past Singapore had to source talent from beyond its shores, nowadays that talent is being cultivated at home. Attitudes are slowly shifting away from the dependence on FT to encouraging Local Talent in key areas. Expat packages are disappearing, local terms are the norm so now there is a situation where companies can choose between LT and FT on a pure cost basis. Hence the surge in Indian nationals in Singapore as they too are well educated, well travelled and cost less than LT and FT from other countries. This is a headache for the Government here because Singaporeans expect wages to keep pace with a rising standard of living. The reality is that since 2007 we have been living in a world of wage deflation (relative to the cost of living) and it seems that nothing short of a global economic miracle is going to change this. Do most people understand this? Of course not, in all parts of the globe, citizens are blaming the immigrants for their problems and in this respect Singapore is no different.

There are many reasons why companies will continue to locate to Singapore not least is the ease of doing business here, serious IP protection and access to the rest of Asia. Personally, air quality, safety and a sensible tax regime are big factors for us choosing to stay here. For many big companies, Singapore is the no-brainer place to be. Sure, there are plenty of LLCs in the region, but these don't boast the quality of life and business opportunities you'll find here.

PR is about residence and residence is not just about tax contributions but also the role played by the individual in Singapore's daily life. What's the point of having PR if all someone does is sit in their club of choice and complain about maids and taxi drivers? That's why I suggest joining a grassroots or voluntary organisation - a chance to get to know your neighbours and for them to get to know you too. So far as I am aware, grassroots is politically neutral.

If you want PR in a hurry, head down to Sentosa Cove and buy a $20-$50 million house - I hear they still come with free PR.


You have a wrong conception that companies will continue to remain here for safety, air quality, corruption free etc.

If that was true, all businesses would have vanished from China and India and other BRICs. Have you heard of the concept of emerging economies? They have lots of issues, yet, thats where the growth is.

For company's the primary aim is profits and growth in profits and getting into markets that are untapped. Currently Myanmar is the latest market where all companies want to go to tap its virgin opportunities, inspite of all the issues there.

In Singapore, see how Carrefour closed down and moved out. Tesco and Walmart didnt even come here. Even Malaysia is better they have Tesco. In India all big retailers are gunning to enter there. All big MNCs have major operations in India inspite of the huge problems there.

You are confusing personal comfortzone with companies imperatives.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:01 pm

k_as_in_cat wrote:It would be a bit off-topic to get into a debate about who is suitable for what job but it's worth bearing in mind that Singapore has a high standard of academic achievement and although in the past Singapore had to source talent from beyond its shores, nowadays that talent is being cultivated at home. Attitudes are slowly shifting away from the dependence on FT to encouraging Local Talent in key areas.

What I think you wanted to say above is that Singapore managed to increase its own middle-higher class base of technical, skilled people. With this I can in principle agree although majority of them fit the local quality standards only. But yes, they can compete with so called FT from SE Asia.

Expat packages are disappearing, local terms are the norm so now there is a situation where companies can choose between LT and FT on a pure cost basis. Hence the surge in Indian nationals in Singapore as they too are well educated, well travelled and cost less than LT and FT from other countries. This is a headache for the Government here because Singaporeans expect wages to keep pace with a rising standard of living. The reality is that since 2007 we have been living in a world of wage deflation (relative to the

Expat packages disappear also for the reason that everything is getting more and more expensive around. Not every company can afford this. Was that ever a norm that majority of the "FTs" from the subcontinents were here on the expat packages? I doubt so. And yes, gross of the current political problems are due to the low quality low wage "FT" intake. What went wrong IMHO was the right balance. To provide the economy growth and maintenance the gov. took a social loan and have currently problems with paying the interests.

cost of living) and it seems that nothing short of a global economic miracle is going to change this. Do most people understand this? Of course not, in all parts of the globe, citizens are blaming the immigrants for their problems and in this respect Singapore is no different.

There are many reasons why companies will continue to locate to Singapore not least is the ease of doing business here, serious IP protection and access to the rest of Asia. Personally, air quality, safety and a sensible tax regime are big factors for us choosing to stay here. For many big companies, Singapore is the no-brainer place to be. Sure, there are plenty of LLCs in the region, but these don't boast the quality of life and business opportunities you'll find here.

For many big manufacturing companies it is no brainer to go to Indonesia or China instead of staying here. This has been already happening for few good years. Air quality and personal safety (within reasonable range) will have no effect on staying or going for particular business. Friendly State including tax system - yes, but this is like a prerequisite. This is what has made possible what is still around but this factor is something like a constant. It will not get better (significantly) to combat the growing costs of production. Hopefully biotechnology will kick off at one point together with some high value added manufacturing.

PR is about residence and residence is not just about tax contributions but also the role played by the individual in Singapore's daily life. What's the point of having PR if all someone does is sit in their club of choice and complain about maids and taxi drivers?
That's why I suggest joining a grassroots or voluntary organisation - a chance to get to know your neighbours and for them to get to know you too. So far as I am aware, grassroots is politically neutral.

This is in principle a good suggestion but often difficult to translate to practice especially for these FT that Singapore needs most. Besides, AFAIK GR = PAP. Not that I have anything against PAP, but it is not as you claim politically neutral.

If you want PR in a hurry, head down to Sentosa Cove and buy a $20-$50 million house - I hear they still come with free PR.

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Postby Sergei82 » Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:37 pm

Johor will be the silent killer of Singapore! :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 21 Feb 2013 3:02 pm

OSOD was correct on the NRIC Lettering/numbering system. Following explains:

Structure of the NRIC number/FIN

The structure of the NRIC number/FIN is #0000000@ where:
#
This is a letter that can be "S", "F", "T" or "G" depending on the status of the holder.
For Singapore citizens and permanent residents, this is the century prefix.
The NRIC number for citizens and permanent residents born before the year 2000 is assigned the letter "S". "S" is the 19th letter in the English alphabet, denoting that the person was born in the 1900s (1900–1999). It was commonly believed before 2000 that the "S" stands for Singapore, especially since the letter "F" was used for foreigners. It is unknown, however, if that was ever the intended meaning.
Singapore citizens and permanent residents born in 2000 and beyond are assigned the letter "T". "T" is the 20th letter in the English alphabet, denoting the person was born in the years 2000–2099.
Foreigners holding employment or student passes issued before 2000 are assigned the letter "F".
Foreigners holding employment or student passes issued in and after 2000 are assigned the letter "G".
0000000
This is a 7 digit serial number assigned to the document holder
For Singapore citizens and permanent residents born in 1968 and after, their NRIC number will start with their year of birth e.g. 71xxxxx#. For those born in 1967 and earlier, the NRIC number does not relate to year of birth, and commonly begins with 0 or 1. Non-native Singaporeans who were born before 1965 are assigned the heading numbers 2 or 3 upon conversion of permanent residency (PR) or citizenship.
@
This is the checksum letter calculated based on # and 0000000.
The algorithm to calculate the checksum of the NRIC is not publicly available; as of 1999, the Ministry of Home Affairs only sold the algorithm to Singapore-based organizations demonstrating a "legitimate need" for it.[6] That said, the checksum algorithms for the NRIC (S- and T-series) and the FIN have been easily reverse-engineered, such as described by Ngiam.[7]


offshoreoildude wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:All FIN number start with either the letter "F" or "G". Regardless of the level. In fact even WP numbers start with either of the same two letters. That only changes when you get PR/Citizenship and at that time you will no longer have a FIN number but will be replaced with an NRIC number starting with the letter "S".


There's a whole algorithm behind the numbering system I read somewhere the S comes from pre 2000 and the T from 2000 on - the digits are related to the quarterly period the IC was issued in... it might have been on this board in fact that I read this.

I thought we had rolled over to T's now for IC's issued in the new century? Birth certs from 2000 onwards have had T's in front and the NRIC number follows the birth cert number - at least for my two pikninnis.

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 03 Mar 2013 3:25 pm

I did not notice it earlier...

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
For those born in 1967 and earlier, the NRIC number does not relate to year of birth, and commonly begins with 0 or 1. Non-native Singaporeans who were born before 1965 are assigned the heading numbers 2 or 3 upon conversion of permanent residency (PR) or citizenship.


The above is incorrect or at least not precise.

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Postby Solal » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 5:10 pm

Interesting thead,

We applied in early November with my wife and son (almost 5 month), and we are in Pending status. The officer told us that a reply should come between 4 to 6 month. It seems to be a various rule apparently :)

Could you guys give an advice on our application based on the latest political climate in Singapore ?
1) Applied with Me + Wife + Son (2yo)
2) French nationality
3) Me: IT Manager in a Bank (salary 11.5k$)
4) Wife: ESD Consultant, Green Mark certified professional
5) In Singapore since 1.5y only (weak point I guess :()
6) Me holding Master degree in IT, Wife holding Bachelor degree in Science / building design
7) Cash flows incoming from France (we are moving our savings from France to Singapore in order to settle and try to buy something)
8) Current PEP holder (previous P1), Wife S-Pass and Son (PEP) DP

We are really hoping on PR status since we fell in love of Singapore and want to settle here, my wife would like to apply for a master degree here in sustainability and building design, and we are trying to save some money to try to buy an appartment.

Should we hold our breath or not hoping too much on it, and live our EP life ?

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Postby offshoreoildude » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 7:38 pm

I think I might have written some of the wiki - I know I wrote some of the Wiki on the number plate checksum. You could have circular references there SMS.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:OSOD was correct on the NRIC Lettering/numbering system. Following explains:

Structure of the NRIC number/FIN

The structure of the NRIC number/FIN is #0000000@ where:
#
This is a letter that can be "S", "F", "T" or "G" depending on the status of the holder.
For Singapore citizens and permanent residents, this is the century prefix.
The NRIC number for citizens and permanent residents born before the year 2000 is assigned the letter "S". "S" is the 19th letter in the English alphabet, denoting that the person was born in the 1900s (1900–1999). It was commonly believed before 2000 that the "S" stands for Singapore, especially since the letter "F" was used for foreigners. It is unknown, however, if that was ever the intended meaning.
Singapore citizens and permanent residents born in 2000 and beyond are assigned the letter "T". "T" is the 20th letter in the English alphabet, denoting the person was born in the years 2000–2099.
Foreigners holding employment or student passes issued before 2000 are assigned the letter "F".
Foreigners holding employment or student passes issued in and after 2000 are assigned the letter "G".
0000000
This is a 7 digit serial number assigned to the document holder
For Singapore citizens and permanent residents born in 1968 and after, their NRIC number will start with their year of birth e.g. 71xxxxx#. For those born in 1967 and earlier, the NRIC number does not relate to year of birth, and commonly begins with 0 or 1. Non-native Singaporeans who were born before 1965 are assigned the heading numbers 2 or 3 upon conversion of permanent residency (PR) or citizenship.
@
This is the checksum letter calculated based on # and 0000000.
The algorithm to calculate the checksum of the NRIC is not publicly available; as of 1999, the Ministry of Home Affairs only sold the algorithm to Singapore-based organizations demonstrating a "legitimate need" for it.[6] That said, the checksum algorithms for the NRIC (S- and T-series) and the FIN have been easily reverse-engineered, such as described by Ngiam.[7]


offshoreoildude wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:All FIN number start with either the letter "F" or "G". Regardless of the level. In fact even WP numbers start with either of the same two letters. That only changes when you get PR/Citizenship and at that time you will no longer have a FIN number but will be replaced with an NRIC number starting with the letter "S".


There's a whole algorithm behind the numbering system I read somewhere the S comes from pre 2000 and the T from 2000 on - the digits are related to the quarterly period the IC was issued in... it might have been on this board in fact that I read this.

I thought we had rolled over to T's now for IC's issued in the new century? Birth certs from 2000 onwards have had T's in front and the NRIC number follows the birth cert number - at least for my two pikninnis.
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby offshoreoildude » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 7:41 pm

Solal wrote:Interesting thead,

We applied in early November with my wife and son (almost 5 month), and we are in Pending status. The officer told us that a reply should come between 4 to 6 month. It seems to be a various rule apparently :)

Could you guys give an advice on our application based on the latest political climate in Singapore ?
1) Applied with Me + Wife + Son (2yo)
2) French nationality
3) Me: IT Manager in a Bank (salary 11.5k$)
4) Wife: ESD Consultant, Green Mark certified professional
5) In Singapore since 1.5y only (weak point I guess :()
6) Me holding Master degree in IT, Wife holding Bachelor degree in Science / building design
7) Cash flows incoming from France (we are moving our savings from France to Singapore in order to settle and try to buy something)
8) Current PEP holder (previous P1), Wife S-Pass and Son (PEP) DP

We are really hoping on PR status since we fell in love of Singapore and want to settle here, my wife would like to apply for a master degree here in sustainability and building design, and we are trying to save some money to try to buy an appartment.

Should we hold our breath or not hoping too much on it, and live our EP life ?


Why hold your breath? It's in the hands of the ICA gods. You might be lucky to get into the new quotas rumoured to be generated by the 6.9MM whitepaper however Caucasians (I assume you're not a black French family or an Algerian French family) fall into the 'other' basket which is a little over subscribed I believe.
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Just to share some hope (PR)

Postby zblu1 » Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:01 am

Just to share some hope, we got married in Dec 2012, went for honey moon and applied for PR as a sponsor spouse in early Jan, ICA came back within 2 mths to tell us that the wife PR application is successful. Was much faster then we had expected.

1) Me SG male citizen (Chinese), wife Indon Chinese
2) Both Masters degree from Australia university
3) Me working in bank.
4) Wife unemployed (previously working for family business) and only moved to Singapore after wedding, so length of stay in SG was about 2 mths from date of application.

So whoever who says that the marriage must be at least 2 years, then only should u apply for PR is not really right. Good luck everyone and hope the info helps, all the best with your PR application :)

Regards,

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:47 am

When you are the right flavour and the right industry for the demographic majority all things can be bent to suit the immediate needs of the powers that be. :cool:

Anyway, congratulations and thanks for the info. It all adds to the databank here. ;-)


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