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New subletting restrictions on PRs in HDBs

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 9:26 am

JR8 wrote:
AndrewV wrote:to me, the government just needs to provide free healthcare (or only 10% cop-pay), and they would get all the votes they need. This is based on speaking with my friends and colleagues. they don't need the dole or any kind of other welfare mechanism, just 90% subsidized healthcare will ensure they are in power till the end of days

they don't really need to come up with all these rules imho


'Free' healthcare, like the NHS in the UK? And who pays for this 'free' healthcare, the citizens who pay around 10% of their salary for life to fund it.


I can't imagine that running a "free" healthcare system in Singapore would cost any more than fraction of what it does in the UK. Just open another Casino or two and implement throw another tax on top of all of them.

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 9:54 am

zzm9980 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
AndrewV wrote:to me, the government just needs to provide free healthcare (or only 10% cop-pay), and they would get all the votes they need. This is based on speaking with my friends and colleagues. they don't need the dole or any kind of other welfare mechanism, just 90% subsidized healthcare will ensure they are in power till the end of days

they don't really need to come up with all these rules imho


'Free' healthcare, like the NHS in the UK? And who pays for this 'free' healthcare, the citizens who pay around 10% of their salary for life to fund it.


I can't imagine that running a "free" healthcare system in Singapore would cost any more than fraction of what it does in the UK. Just open another Casino or two and implement throw another tax on top of all of them.


Singapore already makes so much money from everything else. Why, cutting the paycheck of overpaid ministers, I think, would pay a substantial cost of a free healthcare system.

:roll:

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:49 am

nakatago wrote:Singapore already makes so much money from everything else. Why, cutting the paycheck of overpaid ministers, I think, would pay a substantial cost of a free healthcare system.

:roll:


It's a nice populist sentiment, but really it wouldn't. Even if we assumed to cut $500k from each of the 99 MPs, that would be under $50million a year. A bit under $17 for each of the ~3 million citizens.

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:22 am

zzm9980 wrote:It's a nice populist sentiment, but really it wouldn't. Even if we assumed to cut $500k from each of the 99 MPs, that would be under $50million a year. A bit under $17 for each of the ~3 million citizens.


me thinks we are seeing real politics .. like in India, free rice cooker for votes .. or free tv for votes .. though politicans know tv and rice cooker will not feed a starving stomach and especially when most people don't have electricity .. but, well, it wins votes

I am still amused to see the statement that only less than 5% of PRs are renting out HDB property .. but, tightening the screws on the 5% may help make the 95% happier .. I guess

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:56 am

ecureilx wrote:
I am still amused to see the statement that only less than 5% of PRs are renting out HDB property .. but, tightening the screws on the 5% may help make the 95% happier .. I guess


And don't forget that slightly less than 50k PRs even own HDB flats. So we're talking 5% of that.

The Business Times
Published November 22, 2011
Permanent residents own 48,700 HDB flats as at September

SINGAPORE permanent residents (PRs) owned some 48,700 HDB flats as at September this year, according to fresh figures released by the Ministry of National Development (MND) yesterday.

The number of flats in the hands of PRs was made known in parliament yesterday after Member of Parliament for Ang Mo Kio GRC Ang Hin Kee requested for an update.

Mr Ang also asked how many PRs who are not residing in Singapore have received approval from the HDB to rent out their flats.

In a written response to Mr Ang, MND said that 4 per cent, or 1,967 of the 48,700 flats owned by PRs, were being sublet with HDB's approval. MND added that these flats were granted approval as their owners have met their Minimum Occupation Period (MOP). Another 295 PR households have obtained HDB's approval to sublet their flats during the MOP, of which 261 of them are working overseas.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 2:50 pm

... Meanwhile I see that property prices are at new record levels.

First five pages of the Saturday Money section all about property, that inadvertently says it all I think.

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Postby AndrewV » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:04 am

zzm9980 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
AndrewV wrote:to me, the government just needs to provide free healthcare (or only 10% cop-pay), and they would get all the votes they need. This is based on speaking with my friends and colleagues. they don't need the dole or any kind of other welfare mechanism, just 90% subsidized healthcare will ensure they are in power till the end of days

they don't really need to come up with all these rules imho


'Free' healthcare, like the NHS in the UK? And who pays for this 'free' healthcare, the citizens who pay around 10% of their salary for life to fund it.


I can't imagine that running a "free" healthcare system in Singapore would cost any more than fraction of what it does in the UK. Just open another Casino or two and implement throw another tax on top of all of them.

to be honest, this topic has been argued to death and a famous academic also published a paper on why the benifits for citizens in singapore are absurd (in line with the economic standing). I'm not really an expert to suggest where this money comes from, but I know that a lot of citizens want it, and if they get it, government will surely get 10-20% more votes next GE

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:18 am

AndrewV wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
AndrewV wrote:to me, the government just needs to provide free healthcare (or only 10% cop-pay), and they would get all the votes they need. This is based on speaking with my friends and colleagues. they don't need the dole or any kind of other welfare mechanism, just 90% subsidized healthcare will ensure they are in power till the end of days

they don't really need to come up with all these rules imho


'Free' healthcare, like the NHS in the UK? And who pays for this 'free' healthcare, the citizens who pay around 10% of their salary for life to fund it.


I can't imagine that running a "free" healthcare system in Singapore would cost any more than fraction of what it does in the UK. Just open another Casino or two and implement throw another tax on top of all of them.

to be honest, this topic has been argued to death and a famous academic also published a paper on why the benifits for citizens in singapore are absurd (in line with the economic standing). I'm not really an expert to suggest where this money comes from, but I know that a lot of citizens want it, and if they get it, government will surely get 10-20% more votes next GE


I haven't followed it much, so I'm really not sure what the real details are in Singapore. (I wasted too many braincells trying to follow it in the US) One thing I will agree with though is Singaporeans do have a crazy amount of benefits, and are also amazing at the amount of bitching done for the things they (think they) don't have.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 2:01 pm

AndrewV wrote:


Well, I saw a post in another forum where one smart guy demanded that HDB houses must not be sold for PRs .. it must be only for Citizens - and PRs must rent or buy condos ..

Nobody bothered to tell him that PRs are only eligible for resale - i.e. higher priced flats .. unlike Citizens who are eligible for grants ..

And if you make PRs not to buy HDB, and only rent from SC or buy condo, well, the property will become super-high .. until nobody wants to come here ..

I remember the time an agency was headhunting a guy, from US, and he was offered a standard 1,200 $ for housing allowance.

He just laughed it off and said unless he comes on 'housing fully paid' he is not keen, and bluntly told the people that he is not keen to pay 1/4th of his salary for rental .. when his apartment near some International School was costing 8,000 per month.

After some flurry of activities, the employer agreed, and only then did he come ..

Now, I wonder, if the rental prices go to sky high, so the locals who own apartments can make a killing, and then kill the Golden egg laying goose ?? :)

As it is, I know a few people who left Singapore, because of high rental, when HDB rental is going up and up, till a 2 bedroom HDB is averaging at 2,500 - a big jump from 1,600 .. even in far off places .. and those who left have happily settled down in Malaysia .. :)

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Postby revhappy » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 2:11 pm

ecureilx wrote:
AndrewV wrote:


Well, I saw a post in another forum where one smart guy demanded that HDB houses must not be sold for PRs .. it must be only for Citizens - and PRs must rent or buy condos ..

Nobody bothered to tell him that PRs are only eligible for resale - i.e. higher priced flats .. unlike Citizens who are eligible for grants ..

And if you make PRs not to buy HDB, and only rent from SC or buy condo, well, the property will become super-high .. until nobody wants to come here ..

I remember the time an agency was headhunting a guy, from US, and he was offered a standard 1,200 $ for housing allowance.

He just laughed it off and said unless he comes on 'housing fully paid' he is not keen, and bluntly told the people that he is not keen to pay 1/4th of his salary for rental .. when his apartment near some International School was costing 8,000 per month.

After some flurry of activities, the employer agreed, and only then did he come ..

Now, I wonder, if the rental prices go to sky high, so the locals who own apartments can make a killing, and then kill the Golden egg laying goose ?? :)

As it is, I know a few people who left Singapore, because of high rental, when HDB rental is going up and up, till a 2 bedroom HDB is averaging at 2,500 - a big jump from 1,600 .. even in far off places .. and those who left have happily settled down in Malaysia .. :)


I am renting a 2 bedder HDB decently renovated in Tampines about 3 bus stops from MRT(I dont need MRT BTW, I am biker :P ), for 2k and looking at your comment, I think I got a good deal :)

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 2:16 pm

revhappy wrote:I am renting a 2 bedder HDB decently renovated in Tampines about 3 bus stops from MRT(I dont need MRT BTW, I am biker :P ), for 2k and looking at your comment, I think I got a good deal :)


S$ 2K for 2 bedroom HDB is a far jump, from S$ 1,500 for 3 bedroom, in 2009 :) how's that for a price rise ?? i am talking of Tampines in 2009 :)

Yah, you still got a great deal .. how long is your lease again ? haha ..

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 2:22 pm

revhappy wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
AndrewV wrote:


Well, I saw a post in another forum where one smart guy demanded that HDB houses must not be sold for PRs .. it must be only for Citizens - and PRs must rent or buy condos ..

Nobody bothered to tell him that PRs are only eligible for resale - i.e. higher priced flats .. unlike Citizens who are eligible for grants ..

And if you make PRs not to buy HDB, and only rent from SC or buy condo, well, the property will become super-high .. until nobody wants to come here ..

I remember the time an agency was headhunting a guy, from US, and he was offered a standard 1,200 $ for housing allowance.

He just laughed it off and said unless he comes on 'housing fully paid' he is not keen, and bluntly told the people that he is not keen to pay 1/4th of his salary for rental .. when his apartment near some International School was costing 8,000 per month.

After some flurry of activities, the employer agreed, and only then did he come ..

Now, I wonder, if the rental prices go to sky high, so the locals who own apartments can make a killing, and then kill the Golden egg laying goose ?? :)

As it is, I know a few people who left Singapore, because of high rental, when HDB rental is going up and up, till a 2 bedroom HDB is averaging at 2,500 - a big jump from 1,600 .. even in far off places .. and those who left have happily settled down in Malaysia .. :)


I am renting a 2 bedder HDB decently renovated in Tampines about 3 bus stops from MRT(I dont need MRT BTW, I am biker :P ), for 2k and looking at your comment, I think I got a good deal :)


Yes, you did, you lucky basterd. I even saw 2+1's going for 2.7-2.8k where they were 1.8 two years ago.

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Postby revhappy » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 2:57 pm

ecureilx wrote:S$ 2K for 2 bedroom HDB is a far jump, from S$ 1,500 for 3 bedroom, in 2009 :) how's that for a price rise ?? i am talking of Tampines in 2009 :)

Yah, you still got a great deal .. how long is your lease again ? haha ..


I came here in 2009 and my 1st house that I rented was for 1.4k, in Tampines west, near St Hilda, haha. Yeah, 2k is a big jump and I am glad I came here with some very tough salary negotiations and then got converted to permanent employee with a big raise, so the 600$ jump isn't extremely hard to digest.

BTW, my lease is only 1 year and it started april this year so I am good untill Mar next year. The owner is Indonesian Chinese and lives in Indonesia. Hopefully, he doesn't increase rent substantially or may be I get PR and start looking a buying something. Who knows, in current times nothing can be predicted for even 6 months down the line.

nakatago wrote:Yes, you did, you lucky basterd. I even saw 2+1's going for 2.7-2.8k where they were 1.8 two years ago.


Haha, I know. Actually I think 2.2 -2.3 is like the average rate for decent houses. You are right 2 years ago it was 1.8k and even then I thought it was overpriced compared to 3 years ago, lol.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 4:35 pm

revhappy wrote:.. may be I get PR and start looking a buying something...


By then, who knows, the local vocalists may force HDBs as off-limits for PRs .. if I believe the new exponents of "Singaporeans First .. " or for PRs barred from using CPF for buying any house .. somebody assumes all PRs are heavily paid so it is ok to make them pay - and also implied that it could be the new citizens jealous of possible newer citizens .. :)

I can't figure out that logic too,considering PRs don't get subsidy, well, the goal is to make Singapore not attractive at all for anybody to come here .. then the Billions in GIC can be used to pay for loss of income, loss of business opportunity .. and make it a welfare state ..

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Postby AndrewV » Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:53 am

ecureilx wrote:
AndrewV wrote:


Well, I saw a post in another forum where one smart guy demanded that HDB houses must not be sold for PRs .. it must be only for Citizens - and PRs must rent or buy condos ..

Nobody bothered to tell him that PRs are only eligible for resale - i.e. higher priced flats .. unlike Citizens who are eligible for grants ..

And if you make PRs not to buy HDB, and only rent from SC or buy condo, well, the property will become super-high .. until nobody wants to come here ..

I remember the time an agency was headhunting a guy, from US, and he was offered a standard 1,200 $ for housing allowance.

He just laughed it off and said unless he comes on 'housing fully paid' he is not keen, and bluntly told the people that he is not keen to pay 1/4th of his salary for rental .. when his apartment near some International School was costing 8,000 per month.

After some flurry of activities, the employer agreed, and only then did he come ..

Now, I wonder, if the rental prices go to sky high, so the locals who own apartments can make a killing, and then kill the Golden egg laying goose ?? :)

As it is, I know a few people who left Singapore, because of high rental, when HDB rental is going up and up, till a 2 bedroom HDB is averaging at 2,500 - a big jump from 1,600 .. even in far off places .. and those who left have happily settled down in Malaysia .. :)


Agree, the rental market shouldn't go too high so as to make it absurd for foreigners to come to singapore, as that would kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I do hope is stabilizes and remains at reasonable levels (I am saying this being a singaporean myself with my own house).

I think locals are angry at seeing the PR's make a killing off their HDB's (which a lot bought much cheaper), when they cease to work and go back to their country. So some are calling for capital gains tax.

That being said, I reiterate my statement that 10% co-pay or free healthcare will get the government all the votes they need for comfortable re-election. Singapore is in too high a state of advancement to still have the very expensive healthcare for it's own citizens. The free healthcare benifits might force a lot of PR's to convert as well. I know a lot of PR's who are here in the short term, have their eyes on australia and canada because of the great healthcare of those countries.


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