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New subletting restrictions on PRs in HDBs

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New subletting restrictions on PRs in HDBs

Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 1:31 pm

I wonder if this is going to cool the stream of lower income PR applicants?

Flat owners who are permanent residents (PRs) will now have to meet more stringent conditions if they want to sublet their flats.

With effect from yesterday, they will be able to sublet their flats only if they have not done so before.

This is on top of the Housing Board's (HDB's) existing requirement that they have to occupy the flat for a minimum period of five years.

HDB said in a statement yesterday that PRs can sublet their flats for only a one-year period, after which they would have to apply for an extension. But the application would be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

Approval will be granted only if there are "extenuating reasons", said HDB. The total period of subletting during the owners' entire flat ownership cannot exceed five years as well.

Previously, the subletting conditions for PRs were the same as those for Singapore citizens - they had been allowed to sublet their flat for up to three years per application, and there had been no cap on the number of renewals or the total period allowed for subletting.

The subletting conditions for Singaporeans remain unchanged.


Theres more to the article, but that's the meat of it. I'm guessing this and the stuff JR8 posted are part of the changes MS has been hinting at. I wonder what else is coming? :???:


edited to add the following relevant statistics to this discussion:

The Business Times
Published November 22, 2011
Permanent residents own 48,700 HDB flats as at September

SINGAPORE permanent residents (PRs) owned some 48,700 HDB flats as at September this year, according to fresh figures released by the Ministry of National Development (MND) yesterday.

The number of flats in the hands of PRs was made known in parliament yesterday after Member of Parliament for Ang Mo Kio GRC Ang Hin Kee requested for an update.

Mr Ang also asked how many PRs who are not residing in Singapore have received approval from the HDB to rent out their flats.

In a written response to Mr Ang, MND said that 4 per cent, or 1,967 of the 48,700 flats owned by PRs, were being sublet with HDB's approval. MND added that these flats were granted approval as their owners have met their Minimum Occupation Period (MOP). Another 295 PR households have obtained HDB's approval to sublet their flats during the MOP, of which 261 of them are working overseas.
Last edited by zzm9980 on Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 2:02 pm

I had an RC meeting last night. Boy, when the topic of government feedback came up, did they ever get a earful. I have an HDB resale flat that will be paid for in 11 months. When my children leave the nest and my MiL departs I'll be bouncing off the walls with unutilized space as I have an old flat with 1300 sq/ft and 4 full sized bedrooms. I though about subleting 2 of them, converting one remaining into an office/den and staying in the rest. What gripes me it the capping at 5 years. I bought the damn flat, raised my family in the flat, took care of 4 tier generation in the flat, now, I'm not allowed to sublet the spare bedrooms, which would give me a small income after I retire allowing me to monetize a small portion of my investment. It's the principle of the thing. They suck my blood and suck all the juices out of me for 30 years and now they want to drive me away - fcuk you, we no longer need you. Yeah, there are some bad apples, so go after them, but don't tar the entire lot with the same brush, Less than 5% of HDBs owned by PRs have been sublet. Considerable less that what it being done by opportunistic locals citizens.

Now, for me, it's the principle of the thing as I can still do so unhampered as my wife is a citizen, but this is really p*ssing me off!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 2:02 pm

Whew! Finally got that off my chest! I've been stewing since it came out. :mad:

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Postby iloverice » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 2:35 pm

Fully understand SMS, and me, the person who rent a room in HDB flat, I'm waiting for more measure to come, such as HDB flat owner not allowed to rent out their room to foreigner (work pass holder or PR). There are many questioning the new flat subletting on the other forum, such as what is one of the owner is citizen, seeing your post now I know the answer. Thanks to all those who abuse the system before now we all the sincere residents affected.

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 3:21 pm

iloverice wrote:Fully understand SMS, and me, the person who rent a room in HDB flat, I'm waiting for more measure to come, such as HDB flat owner not allowed to rent out their room to foreigner (work pass holder or PR). There are many questioning the new flat subletting on the other forum, such as what is one of the owner is citizen, seeing your post now I know the answer. Thanks to all those who abuse the system before now we all the sincere residents affected.


???

Did you proofread this first? I sincerely do not understand what you were trying to say but I want to.

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Postby iloverice » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 4:30 pm

Sorry, was typing in hurry, what is --- supposed to be --- what if :oops: my mistake.

I really paranoid now, first the school registration, school fee, then follow by the dependant pass new rule, then now the HDB also change their rule.

On the other forum (local's) they questioning, how about those Singapore Citizen with a PR as a spouse? Do they still able to sublet their flat? They keep repeat the question.

Me as a low class worker, now have to prepare to pack in case they impose another tightening measure. :???:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 4:43 pm

I'm just assuming that because my wife's name is first on the title, as a Singaporean, the rules should apply to her as a citizen. However, as sh*tty as the gahmen are getting I'm sure that they will find a way to screw us over like every thing else.

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 4:44 pm

iloverice wrote:Sorry, was typing in hurry, what is --- supposed to be --- what if :oops: my mistake.

I really paranoid now, first the school registration, school fee, then follow by the dependant pass new rule, then now the HDB also change their rule.

On the other forum (local's) they questioning, how about those Singapore Citizen with a PR as a spouse? Do they still able to sublet their flat? They keep repeat the question.

Me as a low class worker, now have to prepare to pack in case they impose another tightening measure. :???:


Ah, thanks for the clarification.

I think SMS already implied that for citizen-PR couples, the citizen rules would apply.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 4:52 pm

I haven't been able to nail that assumption down yet, but it would stand to reason that they would still have to put their citizens first. (Then again, since the GE, the gahmen have been running around all helter-skelter just trying to save their own arses.

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Postby therat » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 5:46 pm

Base on what I had read.

This new rules is apply for PR owner who sublet the whole house, not room only.

Reason is the rule say after meeting MOP.
Only sublet the whole unit need to meet MOP.
Sublet just room only with owner still staying in the unit. Don't need to meet MOP.

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10296p.nsf ... enDocument
Revised Rule


5Under the revised rule, SPR flat owners will be allowed to sublet their flat after meeting the MOP, if they have not sublet the flat before. The approval will be granted for 1 year only, instead of 3 years. Upon expiry of the 1-year period, the application to extend the approval will be assessed on a case-by-case basis and approval will be granted only if there are extenuating reasons. The total period of subletting during the flat owners' entire duration of the flat ownership is capped at 5 years.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 5:56 pm

That is what I can't nail down. Looking on the HDB site, their latest "news" has a PDF file with some of the illegal subletting by the owners. In at least one case (none of them are PR cases by the way), they owners kept one BR locked (as was the normal way of circumventing the law at the time). So it would seem the devil is in not what they've said, but what they haven't said.

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Postby revhappy » Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:29 pm

Just curious, If you are not staying in Singapore, I think you can lock a bedroom and rent out the house. You could say that you are overseas and "when you come back" you stay in the room. I think that is fine. People who were caught might have been Singporeans who stay in condos or with their relatives and then renting out their flat with a room locked. These guys should be caught, there is no way to escape.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 14 Jul 2012 6:50 am

Rev, that is correct. But. And here's the rub. The whole shebang is capped at 5 years for PRs. After you have rented it out for 5 years (consecutive or not) you will no longer be able to get permission to rent. Then they will be keeping an eye on you and if they catch you, the will take back the flat and you will be crap out of luck.

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Postby AndrewV » Mon, 16 Jul 2012 2:53 pm

to me, the government just needs to provide free healthcare (or only 10% cop-pay), and they would get all the votes they need. This is based on speaking with my friends and colleagues. they don't need the dole or any kind of other welfare mechanism, just 90% subsidized healthcare will ensure they are in power till the end of days

they don't really need to come up with all these rules imho

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 16 Jul 2012 4:18 pm

AndrewV wrote:to me, the government just needs to provide free healthcare (or only 10% cop-pay), and they would get all the votes they need. This is based on speaking with my friends and colleagues. they don't need the dole or any kind of other welfare mechanism, just 90% subsidized healthcare will ensure they are in power till the end of days

they don't really need to come up with all these rules imho


'Free' healthcare, like the NHS in the UK? And who pays for this 'free' healthcare, the citizens who pay around 10% of their salary for life to fund it.


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