Is the tenant responsible for the following (when moving out

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ABC2012
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Is the tenant responsible for the following (when moving out

Post by ABC2012 » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:30 am

Hi

Apologies if this qn has been asked before.

We are moving out of a place soon and wondering if we are responsible for the following (as in engage professional service and producing receipts to landlord) as they are not stated in the TA

(1) Cleaning of oven
(2) Cleaning of the entire house
(3) Dry cleaning of curtains

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Is the tenant responsible for the following (when moving

Post by x9200 » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:46 am

ABC2012 wrote:Hi

Apologies if this qn has been asked before.

We are moving out of a place soon and wondering if we are responsible for the following (as in engage professional service and producing receipts to landlord) as they are not stated in the TA

(1) Cleaning of oven
(2) Cleaning of the entire house
(3) Dry cleaning of curtains

Thanks in advance!
The TA typically says you have to return the premisses in the same condition minus wear and tear. Mess of all sorts is not the wear and tear. If the sppartment was haded over to you with dirty curtains, oven and the filth all over the place then you probably can leave it like this, otherwise it should be cleaned.

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Post by JR8 » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 3:12 pm

^ +1

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Post by ABC2012 » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 3:31 pm

ok, thanks for the replies.

Of course we will not leave the house in a mess when we do the handover. It will be cleaned, mopped etc to a good standard fit for living.

I'm talking about hiring cleaning services of professional level (not talking about part-time domestic helpers/myself cleaning it) and submit the receipts as proof.

Such professional help is expensive (like the companies that clean up after major renovation, which use high-powered vaccum cleaners) and the three items put together will probably amount to more than S$1K. If they get domestic helpers to clean up and charge us for it, we dont mind. But paying more than $1K for it??

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Post by the lynx » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 3:36 pm

Since it is not mentioned in the TA and your concern would if you should get professional services to clean it up, then I'd say you don't have to if you don't want to.

Take pictures post-cleaning (digitally dated) as proof after you are done and let the owner/agent have a copy.

As for the curtains, I have no comment. Never been a fan of dry cleaning, especially curtains.

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Post by JR8 » Thu, 12 Jul 2012 3:43 pm

ABC2012 wrote:ok, thanks for the replies.

Of course we will not leave the house in a mess when we do the handover. It will be cleaned, mopped etc to a good standard fit for living.

I'm talking about hiring cleaning services of professional level (not talking about part-time domestic helpers/myself cleaning it) and submit the receipts as proof.

Such professional help is expensive (like the companies that clean up after major renovation, which use high-powered vaccum cleaners) and the three items put together will probably amount to more than S$1K. If they get domestic helpers to clean up and charge us for it, we dont mind. But paying more than $1K for it??

What is it that makes you think you are obliged to have a full 'professional clean'? Where is it written?

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Post by ScoobyDoes » Fri, 13 Jul 2012 3:58 pm

the lynx wrote: As for the curtains, I have no comment. Never been a fan of dry cleaning, especially curtains.

Yes, me too......and when the landlord stated in our contract that all curtains were to be dry cleaned once a year..... to told him to get lost and take his curtains with him, which, to be fair, he did :lol:

We have loads of our own anyway so was wasy.
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Post by nakatago » Fri, 13 Jul 2012 4:26 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:
the lynx wrote: As for the curtains, I have no comment. Never been a fan of dry cleaning, especially curtains.

Yes, me too......and when the landlord stated in our contract that all curtains were to be dry cleaned once a year..... to told him to get lost and take his curtains with him, which, to be fair, he did :lol:

We have loads of our own anyway so was wasy.
I never did understand why you would have curtains so fancy, they need to be dry cleaned.
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Post by snowqueen » Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:57 pm

Our TA says that the apartment has to be restored in the condition it was left in (minus wear and tear). We are about to vacate our place in a couple of weeks and I have agreed to paint the place (myself) as a gesture of goodwill for finishing our lease 3 months early.

I also need to dry clean the curtains (although I've machine washed the net curtains) and have to have receipts as proof. I also need to get the air con serviced again before handover Other than that, that should be it.

I will be doing a thorough clean of the place although you can hire someone for this for about $60, I need to save every penny so will be doing this myself. I will be doing all the interior doors, kitchen tiles and cupboards, the lot. I do not want anyone to nit pick over small items.

Also, make sure all your bulbs are working - I heard one story where someone was charged $150 per light bulb replacement - that landlord but have been a real A hole.

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Post by JR8 » Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:37 pm

snowqueen wrote: I will be doing a thorough clean of the place although you can hire someone for this for about $60, I need to save every penny so will be doing this myself. I will be doing all the interior doors, kitchen tiles and cupboards, the lot. I do not want anyone to nit pick over small items.

I don't know how rigorous your check-in inventory was but I'm rather dubious about tenants doing their own check-out cleans. Because the fact is that most tenants are unable to clean to the standard of a landlord's 'professional clean'. Well, in London at least I've seen and heard anecdotes of plenty of tenants who think they've done an adequate clean themselves, only for the landlord to have have it professionally done again. Doors, cupboards and tiles is nothing, that's a given. How about leaving the inside of the oven like new (ex: wear and tear), or cleaning out the inside of the rubber door washer on the washing machine, or the dust from the grill of the bathroom extractor fan, or the hardened on grease on the front of the extractor hood grill (you will of course be changing the filter)?



Also, make sure all your bulbs are working - I heard one story where someone was charged $150 per light bulb replacement - that landlord but have been a real A hole.

Well it works both ways :). $150 is on the face of it excessive. If it was it could have been taken to the Small Claims Court.

But I would have thought that observing the common clause in the TA that requires that bulbs be left in working order is simple to follow. And yet it is remarkable that this is probably the commonest clause that tenants ignore as if it somehow won't matter. I honestly don't get it.

So, then the landlord has to get an electrician to go around, determine what needs replacing (and for example some oven and fridge bulbs are both obscure and expensive*). The electrician then has to source and buy them, and he then has to return and fit them. Naturally that costs quite a bit of money. It is also a sure fire way to irritate the landlord!




* Last place we rented, the bedroom ceiling pendant lights were each fitted with 4-6 lightbulbs. I would best describe them as 1.5" golf-ball bulbs. I forget what it was about their connector that made them so obscure but after a very, very long search I finally tracked them down in a lighting shop on upper Balestier Road. If I hadn't have taken the time to do that I expect the landlord and electrician would have been quite justified charging accordingly for the time and effort involved.

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Post by zzm9980 » Sun, 15 Jul 2012 7:39 am

JR8 wrote: * Last place we rented, the bedroom ceiling pendant lights were each fitted with 4-6 lightbulbs. I would best describe them as 1.5" golf-ball bulbs. I forget what it was about their connector that made them so obscure but after a very, very long search I finally tracked them down in a lighting shop on upper Balestier Road. If I hadn't have taken the time to do that I expect the landlord and electrician would have been quite justified charging accordingly for the time and effort involved.
In other news, my buddy has about a dozen rental flats in Singapore. He puts in these custom lighting fixtures that only his lighting shop on upper Balestier Rd carries replacement bulbs for... j/k :)

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Post by JR8 » Sun, 15 Jul 2012 7:45 am

:lol:

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Post by snowqueen » Sun, 15 Jul 2012 7:06 pm


I don't know how rigorous your check-in inventory was but I'm rather dubious about tenants doing their own check-out cleans. Because the fact is that most tenants are unable to clean to the standard of a landlord's 'professional clean'. Well, in London at least I've seen and heard anecdotes of plenty of tenants who think they've done an adequate clean themselves, only for the landlord to have have it professionally done again. Doors, cupboards and tiles is nothing, that's a given. How about leaving the inside of the oven like new (ex: wear and tear), or cleaning out the inside of the rubber door washer on the washing machine, or the dust from the grill of the bathroom extractor fan, or the hardened on grease on the front of the extractor hood grill (you will of course be changing the filter)?


I actually do these routinely anyway so that's nothing extra to me.

We had what we thought was a lightbulb go the other day but the light still didn't work after changing the bulb. My husband investigated and found that we needed to replace the ballast/solenoid - found one and replaced it today. Wonder how many people would have just left it for the landlord to sort out and end up with a chunk of money taken from their deposit.

I'm leaving nothing to chance but I know from being a landlord myself in the UK, people don't always look after your place or clean it to a satisfactory standard after they've left.

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Post by JR8 » Sun, 15 Jul 2012 7:40 pm

snowqueen wrote: I actually do these routinely anyway so that's nothing extra to me.

Ah but now I see you are a landlord. So you are likely to understand standards from the viewpoint of the other side of the fence :)

We had what we thought was a lightbulb go the other day but the light still didn't work after changing the bulb. My husband investigated and found that we needed to replace the ballast/solenoid - found one and replaced it today.

The 'starter' for a tube or ring tube light? We had one of those go separately from the bulb as well.


Wonder how many people would have just left it for the landlord to sort out and end up with a chunk of money taken from their deposit.

Well that is their decision isn't it. But they must appreciate that the landlord is under no obligation to do it himself for the cost of parts, or indeed seek best value for money, as a tenant might. I think it best to do what is required in the TA, and give the landlord as little of an open invitation to start making deductions.


I'm leaving nothing to chance but I know from being a landlord myself in the UK, people don't always look after your place or clean it to a satisfactory standard after they've left.

It's happened to me a couple of times. Tenants think they can cut a corner and do it themselves (despite the TA requiring a 'professional clean') and then they're aghast when the inventory clerk deems it not cleaned and it has to be done again. Happened to a friend of mine the other way around. A flat he lets, him and his wife spent a whole day cleaning it from top to bottom. The letting agent walked in and right-off said 'It's not clean enough, it won't do' and they then had to get a cleaner in. You see why I'm pretty cynical about DIY cleaning :lol:

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Post by x9200 » Sun, 15 Jul 2012 7:57 pm

JR8 wrote:
snowqueen wrote: I actually do these routinely anyway so that's nothing extra to me.

Ah but now I see you are a landlord. So you are likely to understand standards from the viewpoint of the other side of the fence :)
I think it is more personal. I own a property but not rent it out so I should not count in I guess, still I do all these and I bet I do it better than the local so called professional cleaners. Normally I ask our part time maid to help us with it. She does a general cleaning and ourselves the specific ones. All my tenancies so far in SG I go my deposit cheques at the time I handed back the apartment :)

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