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The value of an MBA....

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The value of an MBA....

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 9:27 pm

...and Singaporean obsession with certifications:

http://sbr.com.sg/hr-education/commenta ... experience

[quote] If I had a dollar for every application I received that started “I have an MBA…”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 9:30 pm

Exactly what I've been saying here for a lot of years. Far as I'm concerned, an MBA without experience to back it up and 80¢ will get you a cup of coffee and that's about all.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 9:34 pm

80¢ where can?! Singapore so expensive, so many foreigner now, got mba.

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Postby the lynx » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:38 pm

For once, I read really tasteful comments from both sides in the link. Unlike those in the one we always come across recently...

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Postby NorrinRadd » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:05 pm

+1, remarkable even.

I think that's actually the first time I've seen a comments section from a local site that had cool head, intelligent comments, and understandable English.
the lynx wrote:For once, I read really tasteful comments from both sides in the link. Unlike those in the one we always come across recently...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:08 pm

lynx, you noticed that as well did you! Was refreshing for a change wasn't it.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:55 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:lynx, you noticed that as well did you! Was refreshing for a change wasn't it.


Maybe the commenters are actually educated instead of just trained.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 8:28 am

I think the author missed the whole point. It has nothing to do with the Singaporeans being convinced that the degree alone is enough. I am pretty sure they get it. It is about a lousiness factor or lack of proper standard seen all across this region when it comes to job including the job application thing. They will send the application anyway regardless the requirements. In many cases it will be as lousy as it gets including wrong name of the company. Apparently it still works and sooner or later they will get a job.
Unfortunately it looks like this lousiness is not only limited to Singapore. I've seen job applications from the UK where the person clearly did not bother to read it before sending applying to the company A and finishing the letter how happy she would be working in B :) At least Singaporeans do not seem to have overblown expectations like what I also have seen from some applicants from the Western countries, with fresh grads, zero experience demanding expat packages and salary at the high end of the spectrum.

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Postby the lynx » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 8:47 am

Let's say we take the author's opinion as it is, I personally think that this is ones of those mind-bogging circular reasoning, as highlighted in one of the comments.

"Needs work for experience, need experience for work."

While weighing on what x92 said above and also what the author outlined, how should one (a fresh grad) go about to prove that s/he is more than just the papers? Extra-co-curricular activities, internships, out-of-school activities, volunteering? Can those be relied on as an indicator of the person's soft skills and calibre aside from the qualifications?

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 9:02 am

I think successful internships is a starter as an indicator.

Part of the problem is grads who think they're too highly qualified for average jobs. Fact is if you're able to get in at a low level and prove yourself you will rise very quickly. I started as a micro-fiche and coupon clerk on £7 an hour... and you better believe I worked into double and triple time up to 80 hours every week until I'd a) raked it in* b) gotten two simultaneous stratospheric internal job-offers.

p.s. I am reminded of (this was late 90s) having summer MBA interns from the US. Oh ho ho ho, what fun. I think they all expected to be structuring derivative transactions or something. Fact is most of them couldn't figure out how to use a photo-copier (and my oh my the death stare the first time you told them to go and do the copying!)


* this was 25 years ago when £1k net a week was an insane income for a young unqualified person.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 9:04 am

x9200 wrote:I think the author missed the whole point. It has nothing to do with the Singaporeans being convinced that the degree alone is enough. I am pretty sure they get it. It is about a lousiness factor or lack of proper standard seen all across this region when it comes to job including the job application thing. They will send the application anyway regardless the requirements. In many cases it will be as lousy as it gets including wrong name of the company. Apparently it still works and sooner or later they will get a job.
Unfortunately it looks like this lousiness is not only limited to Singapore. I've seen job applications from the UK where the person clearly did not bother to read it before sending applying to the company A and finishing the letter how happy she would be working in B :) At least Singaporeans do not seem to have overblown expectations like what I also have seen from some applicants from the Western countries, with fresh grads, zero experience demanding expat packages and salary at the high end of the spectrum.


That problem exists everywhere though. I've had resumes at the fruit vendor that were submitted in all CAPS, terrible grammar, etc. I had one resume that was four pages, and the forth page was "Skills". The entire page was filled with every single possible skill that could possibly exist for this type of position. It looked like a website trying to game a search engine. Needless to say, when phone screening the guy we picked out five or six random "skills", and he had no clue anything about any of them.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 9:07 am

@Lynx: Having a less paid job with less shining title on more bottom side of the career ladder? As far as I can see If there is some job related obsession around is on the job titles. People from my uni that graduated with me if they decided to go to industry they often started from a foreman position and they were all MSc BEng. In Singapore every fresh grad expect to be at least a manager if not CEO.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 9:08 am

JR8 wrote:Part of the problem is grads who think they're too highly qualified for average jobs.


Part of THAT problem is the 'guerrilla marketing' run by MBA programs that make people over-perceive the value of said MBA (Get this MBA, and you'll be the next Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs! never mind that neither have even 4yr degrees...), and the debt these young sheep plunge themselves into to cover the cost of said MBA. "I just got my BA, I have $60k in student loans... and can't find a job... I know, I'll just stay in school and get my MBA! " Two years later.... "I've got my MBA, I have $150k in student loans... I can't take a job starting a penny less than $85k a year!" And truth is, they can't, due to the depth of their debt.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 9:12 am

Lol.... +1.


Better to skip uni and just go to work. Doesn't seemed have harmed Jobs, Gates, Branson, or indeed me :cool:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 9:18 am

As one who was a headhunter and now an HR Manager, the problem, as I see it, is that local graduates come out of school with an entitlement complex demanding salaries equivalent to someone with 5 years experience (local - not expatriate). They use the same approach as the local recruiters do. We call it the shotgun method. They fire off their CV's to all and sundry (as do most in the world today) rather than targeting the company with a specifically crafted CV, but if/when they actually get an interview, the first thing they want to know is how much is the salary, rather than worry more about getting their foot in the door and showing the company what they are made of. But, the law of averages will find them getting a job that they will not stay at for more than a year or two at best. So then you see CV's with reasons for leaving like "change of environment" or "left for better opportunity" but 3 or 4 months or more between jobs and the next job exactly like the last including the same or even less salary as each succeeding HR Exec sees the same crap so offers them even less - take it or leave it.


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