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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Wed, 27 Jun 2012 8:06 pm

QRM wrote:
x9200 wrote:I would argue that she is not an expert and this is not a common sense that patching a tire may lead to such a catastrophe. One exception: if she was informed about potential consequences/hazards by the repair shop.


That was the crucial bit of info the garage did tell her to replace the tire and witnessed by her surviving friends. The garage made a big issue about having told her not to patch the tire obviously to clear themselves of any blame.

If they mentioned the risk, they should be safe, but if they only said that replacement is necessary without any word of explanation (as it happens more than often in Singapore) they may be in trouble.

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Postby taxico » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 4:48 pm

QRM wrote:OK so lets call it the black rubber doughnut bit of a wheel, here a real scenario that happened to a friend...

If you have a crash here would the insurance firm slime their way out of paying because you did not replace or correctly repair the black doughnut?


years ago (late 90s), a delivery man's friend drove, hit and killed a pedestrian with his friend's delivery van.

the judge found him guilty of drink driving and negligence (and what not). the insurance company paid out the stated amount to the deceased's estate.

the insurance company then tried to claim 70% of that sum from the company (who owned the vehicle), stating that because the tires are bald and the horn wasn't working, the company's liable for 70% of that sum.

the company's attorney then replied that as the accident happened at night, the driver was not authorized by the company to use the vehicle, the said driver was drunk, wasn't during working hours, and that it was a personal (not work/company-related) trip, the insurance company can go ream themselves.

the letter was never replied to by the insurance company and everyone considered it case closed. but then the insurance company went after both drivers. i'm not sure what happened after that as the company driver was sacked.

i know the boss of the company and we happened to be discussing on-road accidents and liability recently when he found and pulled out the old documents attesting to the above.

so i think yeah, the insurance company can (and perhaps do) go after the person responsible for causing the accident (eg, not properly repairing/replacing the tires like you stated).

whether they are successful or not, i'm unsure.

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Postby sensei_ » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 8:53 pm

QRM wrote:OK so lets call it the black rubber doughnut bit of a wheel, here a real scenario that happened to a friend.

She was in friends car when they got a flat, the garage said the black doughnut bit needed to be replaced. Driver was short of cash and asked them to patch it up. A few miles later doughnut blows out car rolls two people are killed, one of them being my chum. My chums family get the police report and is suing the driver of the car for causing death through negligence as she patched the black rubber stuff rather than replace it.

If you have a crash here would the insurance firm slime their way out of paying because you did not replace or correctly repair the black doughnut?


if the driver was advised of the risk, why not use the spare? or dont people in singapore carry spare tyres anymore

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 9:09 am

taxico wrote:the insurance company then tried to claim 70% of that sum from the company (who owned the vehicle), stating that because the tires are bald and the horn wasn't working, the company's liable for 70% of that sum.

the company's attorney then replied that as the accident happened at night, the driver was not authorized by the company to use the vehicle, the said driver was drunk, wasn't during working hours, and that it was a personal (not work/company-related) trip, the insurance company can go ream themselves.

I am not sure how is it here but in EU what is actually being determined is what and how different factors contributed to the accident. DUI could be a criminal offense itself so it may be a separate charge but there are situation where the driver, even drunk may not be charged for causing the accident. If it was determined that the driver started to brake sufficiently early but the van did not stop within expected distance because the tires were bald this is not the fault of the driver (unless he was responsible for the van's maintenance).

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 10:52 am

sensei_ wrote:
QRM wrote:OK so lets call it the black rubber doughnut bit of a wheel, here a real scenario that happened to a friend.

She was in friends car when they got a flat, the garage said the black doughnut bit needed to be replaced. Driver was short of cash and asked them to patch it up. A few miles later doughnut blows out car rolls two people are killed, one of them being my chum. My chums family get the police report and is suing the driver of the car for causing death through negligence as she patched the black rubber stuff rather than replace it.

If you have a crash here would the insurance firm slime their way out of paying because you did not replace or correctly repair the black doughnut?


if the driver was advised of the risk, why not use the spare? or dont people in singapore carry spare tyres anymore


My car doesn't have one. Most of the cars I looked to buy didn't have them either :( In the US, only one car I ever owned didn't have one, and that was an S2000 which instead came with the little gimmick fix-a-flat kit. That was mostly due to space constraints.

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Postby sensei_ » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:49 pm

zzm9980 wrote:My car doesn't have one. Most of the cars I looked to buy didn't have them either :( In the US, only one car I ever owned didn't have one, and that was an S2000 which instead came with the little gimmick fix-a-flat kit. That was mostly due to space constraints.


wierd, yet interesting at the same time. all the cars ive owned (and quite a few of various ages) have always had spare tyres. *IMO* no road trip is ever going to take off without one either, even if it is some crappy space saver crap (which i hate with a passion).

btw, i also owned a s2000, and it had one. unless your's was the later generation where they thought to save ~10kg and give a canned of crap.

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:59 pm

Do they teach people here during the driving course how to change the wheel? I would not be surprised if this "skill" was beyond reach of 99% of the local drivers.

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Postby taxico » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 1:43 pm

x9200 wrote:...what is actually being determined is what and how different factors contributed to the accident.

DUI could be a criminal offense itself so it may be a separate charge but there are situation where the driver, even drunk may not be charged for causing the accident.

If it was determined that the driver started to brake sufficiently early but the van did not stop within expected distance because the tires were bald this is not the fault of the driver (unless he was responsible for the van's maintenance).


fortunately (???) the law here was changed to criminalize drink driving since... but i am unsure whether local police would go as far as to do all that you've said in all accidents... DUI is a pretty straight forward charge when there're no fatalities.

as the company boss remarked; it's the responsibility of every driver to check on every aspect of your vehicle before driving off (or at least the first thing in the morning), just like how military drivers do (lights, blinkers, horn, tires, et al).

i guess it all falls on the reasonable man's test?

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Postby taxico » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 1:50 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
sensei_ wrote:My chums family get the police report and is suing the driver of the car for causing death through negligence as she patched the black rubber stuff rather than replace it.

If you have a crash here would the insurance firm slime their way out of paying because you did not replace or correctly repair the black doughnut?


if the driver was advised of the risk, why not use the spare? or dont people in singapore carry spare tyres anymore


My car doesn't have one. Most of the cars I looked to buy didn't have them either :( In the US, only one car I ever owned didn't have one, and that was an S2000 which instead came with the little gimmick fix-a-flat kit.[/quote]

i believe accidents can be avoided or impacts reduced when driving at low/slow speeds.

if you use a can to fix a flat, or even a smaller spare tire, i believe you should be limping to the nearest auto shop, not having a jaunt to the grocery store first...

most singaporeans don't know how to change a tire or attach terminals to the battery or kick a car into gear on a flat battery. ok, so they don't drive stick...

there's no need to learn i guess, since a tow truck's a phone call and 15-25 minutes away.

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 1:54 pm

sensei_ wrote:btw, i also owned a s2000, and it had one. unless your's was the later generation where they thought to save ~10kg and give a canned of crap.


I had two actually, an 03 and an 07. I don't recall on the 03, but the 07 was definitely the fix-a-flat can crap. (Affectionately referred to by Honda marketing as "F1-style tire repair") Both of these were in the US though. It is quite possible local regulations affect this.

The car I have in Singapore now is a Honda Fit, and the cars i looked at were various other Fits and Civics that mostly lacked the spare. The CRV I looked at did have one.

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Postby maneo » Mon, 17 Sep 2012 2:51 am

zzm9980 wrote:
the lynx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Not quite sure what a "tyre" is, but assuming curiousgeorge just has a faulty keyboard, his advise looks good for tires :lol: :P


Oh come on! You and your American English! :lol: :P


Hey, Oxford English Dictionary says this:
tyre |ˌtaɪ(ə)r|
noun
British spelling of tire2.


It doesn't say:
Tire
American spelling of tyre.

:P :cool:

The oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tyre site says otherwise:

Spelling help

Spell tyre with a y (the spelling tire is American).


The Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary also indicates that "tire" is the US spelling:

tyre
noun UK (US tire) /taɪər/ US /taɪr/ [C]

Definition

a thick rubber ring, often filled with air, which is fitted around the outer
edge of the wheel of a vehicle, allowing the vehicle to stick to the road
surface and to travel over the ground more easily


(Definition of tyre noun from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus © Cambridge University Press)

Colonials. :roll: :P
Last edited by maneo on Mon, 17 Sep 2012 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby maneo » Mon, 17 Sep 2012 3:08 am

the lynx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:1) How badly damaged was the rubber donut? Was it in the tread or the sidewall? Did the damage fall within the guidelines posted previously?


COME ON! :roll:


You're really enjoying this, aren't you? :P :lol:

oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/doughnut?q=donut

Spelling help

The beginning of doughnut is spelled dough- (the spelling donut is American).


P.S. All the cars I've bought in SG have had spare tyres, though several were intended just to get you to a repair shop, not to be driven on at high speed.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Sep 2012 9:27 am

You're right Maneo, I just realized this is the Oxford American English Dictionary built into the OS on this computer. I'll give that point to you :)

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Postby the lynx » Mon, 17 Sep 2012 9:48 am

zzm9980 wrote:
sensei_ wrote:
QRM wrote:OK so lets call it the black rubber doughnut bit of a wheel, here a real scenario that happened to a friend.

She was in friends car when they got a flat, the garage said the black doughnut bit needed to be replaced. Driver was short of cash and asked them to patch it up. A few miles later doughnut blows out car rolls two people are killed, one of them being my chum. My chums family get the police report and is suing the driver of the car for causing death through negligence as she patched the black rubber stuff rather than replace it.

If you have a crash here would the insurance firm slime their way out of paying because you did not replace or correctly repair the black doughnut?


if the driver was advised of the risk, why not use the spare? or dont people in singapore carry spare tyres anymore


My car doesn't have one. Most of the cars I looked to buy didn't have them either :( In the US, only one car I ever owned didn't have one, and that was an S2000 which instead came with the little gimmick fix-a-flat kit. That was mostly due to space constraints.


I am surprised that your Honda Fiat doesn't have one (or can't have one). I used to drive an old Honda Civic Si, which has a very low build. The spare tyre is tucked underneath the carpet base of the bonnet (together with the kit). I can't see why your Honda Fiat can't have one.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't all cars have built-in compartment for at least one spare tyre?

EDIT: OMG! I MEANT BOOT! :shock:
Last edited by the lynx on Mon, 17 Sep 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:04 am

I have a compartment, and it's empty. Just extra storage. There doesn't even seem to be any holes in the carpet where the bolt which would secure the spare tire would go through. I also have what looks like a Honda-provided "fix a flat" package, just like my S2000 had.


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