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Another NS / renounciation case.

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johncast
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Another NS / renounciation case.

Postby johncast » Thu, 24 May 2012 11:22 am

Hello,
Looking for some advice on my case.


Me: born in Singapore. Using SG passport, left for Hong Kong age 1 and granted HK PR on arrival. Moved to UK age 2 and received UK citizenship age 8. Returned to HK. Visited SG once before SG passport expired.

Father: naturalized Singapore citizen. Illegal immigrant to Hong Kong. Granted legal HK PR after obtaining SG passport. Became UK PR, but not citizen.

Mother: born Singaporean. Granted HK PR on arrival in HK. Received UK citizenship. After that, she visited SG once before SG passport expired, and then didn't renew it.


So the last time we went to SG was 17 years ago. We have not communicated with the "gahmen" in any other way, except
a) my dad has renewed his SG passport twice (it is his only passport)
b) parents receive tax returns as they rent out their flat in SG. Not HDB.

Our registered address (grandparents' house) has been the same since I was born, that is on my birth cert and my parents' ICs. Tax returns are sent there.

Unfortunately we were not aware of the need to inform the NS people of the intention to renounce, and thought it can be sorted when I turned 21. My mum thinks that I should have received enlistment orders at age 16/18, but nothing with my name has ever been received.


1. Since I never received any letters requiring me to enlist, is the Gahmen aware of me or would they only realise when I bring my situation to their attention e.g. by contacting the embassy?

2. As I spent less than 1 year of my life in SG and have not renewed passport beyond age 10, can I still formally renounce SG citizenship?

3. My parents have unfinished business in SG such as the flat, bank accounts, CPF, and to see my mum's parents, none of which have been done for 17 years. The thing is they are both afraid of entering SG, because my mum either needs to renew her SG passport and lie, or renounce and use UK passport to enter. However, would that have implications for the flat and bank accounts?

4. They are also afraid that the MinDef will catch them as they didn't get me an exit permit, as they thought it is only for leaving SG after the age of 10, but I was already outside. When my mum renews her SG passport or renounces SG citizenship, will they check for any unfulfilled NS obligations by her children (i.e. me)?

Basically, I would like to know, if there is a chance I can enter SG freely as a tourist on my UK passport and in that case, I would sort out my situation and after that my mum would resume SG citizenship, finalise and sell off everything and then renounce it, take her CPF and resume UK citizenship.

However, if I can't ever go to SG again, then there is no point alerting them to my problem and my mum would just have to go and hope for the best with her own situation. Since my dad is a SG citizen only, he would just have to stay out unless everything can be resolved.

5. The last problem is my grandfather has named all his grandchildren in his will. I tried to get him to exclude me but he won't. Before you call me a greedy bastard, I actually want to distribute my share to my cousins (i.e. as though he didn't name me at all), because they have been looking after him every day for the past 10 years while I have been enjoying myself overseas. In case I can never enter SG again, it is possible to do this from abroad, or what happens to my share if the gahmen cannot trace me?

Are my conclusions correct or any advice to offer?
Thanks.

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 24 May 2012 12:14 pm

Complicated situation. The problem is, knowingly or not, you broke the law. We're don't give illegal advice on this forum. So, read both what I say and what I don't say.

1) Pretty sure you're required to register for NS first. Go review the NS site. While the gahmen may or may not be aware of you (hint: they definitely didn't forget you), you'll definitely attract negative attention by showing up at an embassy or Changi with a Singaporean passport or I/C.

2) Sure, once you complete or are legally excused from your NS obligations.

3) Is that flat private property, e.g., condo? There should be no implications on the flat or bank account if she were to enter on her UK passport as a UK citizen. Might be complicated just sorting out who she is with her ID, but keeping all of the renunciation paperwork in order and showing it with old IDs should be enough. I'm not aware how much time you have to renounce once you take a new citizenship, and what (if any) penalties exist for taking too long though. Again, it shouldn't lead for asset loss or forfeiture. (Maybe a fine though) Any reason why your mother can't appoint a power of attorney to help liquidate those assets for her? She shouldn't have to come to Singapore to do all of this stuff.

4) Quite possible. Read all of the other posts on this topic and form an opinion of what's likely to happen.

5) Your inheritance should have nothing to do with your SG citizenship or lack thereof. Should be no problem to get your money without ever setting foot into Singapore.

I know what I'd do if I were you.

kraikk
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Postby kraikk » Thu, 24 May 2012 3:13 pm

There should be no problems with your parents entering Singapore since it is not them who are liable for NS.

As for you, it is interesting whether you are on their radar since you didn't receive any order to enlist. Given that you were born a Singaporean citizen in Singapore, however, I doubt they just missed you out, more likely that the orders were sent to an old or wrong local address. So criminal sanctions (probably fine) would apply if you came back.

It is possible to renounce citizenship at an embassy overseas, but that doesn't resolve the criminal liability.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 24 May 2012 6:56 pm

You muddied everything into one pot and turn to be a rojak mama

Let's unpluck one by one

1. Yes, they are aware thru MOE and MHA but they do not know where to locate you

2. No , you have passed the timeline of age of 5. You have to go down the 21 age

3. Lying when renewing SG PP is perjury. I had just finish 2 Pms on these very issue. ICA knows. If parent are no longer intending to live in SG. Renounce their SG Citizenship and enter using UK PP. If not HDB . no issue. including CPF and bank account

4. Nope, no correlation. The offender is YOU

5. Yes, appoint a lawyer as you executor
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

johncast
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Postby johncast » Thu, 24 May 2012 8:26 pm

Thanks for responses.

I don't know why they would have the wrong address, everything has been sent to grandparents' address since my parents married. Nobody came knocking to find out where I am. But I suppose better safe than sorry.

OK, I guess it is up to us to decide how to proceed. Probably my parents should try to cut all ties first before I do anything. But just one thing, so it is really possible to renounce SG citizenship at an embassy without completing NS first? And seeing as I have no docs from SG, what should I bring, UK naturalisation certificate, dad's SG passport, copy of mum's old IC?

If I am able to renounce, then who shall I approach to try getting a fine only instead of jail sentence, so I can visit again safely? Would the fact that my parents owned the property despite not visiting it for 17 years count against me?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 May 2012 9:10 pm

Don't you have your Singapore Birth Certificate?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 25 May 2012 1:38 am

What is your current age now ?

Nope , you cannot renounce at the embassy.

All renounciation processes will go back to ICA SG. It takes 6 weeks. If you come in person it will be ONE WEEK

Stop questioning about your mail being sent to a different address.
The onus is on your parent. If they are a Sger by the time they left overseas, they have 3 months to inform ICA their overseas address. It is an offence not to leave a forwarding address
So stop that "ITISNOTMYFAULT" syndrome
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!


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