Ostrich Syndrome

[carteki]

Need to vent ....

8) There is also no way we can issue receipts for any payment. We are not a company or society. The group only exist in cyber space and its just an online community.

This is one of the T&C's of a group I belong to on meetup.com with 3,444 members at the time of writing this. They operate regular trips and outings - about 5 a month if not more - and all are lead by a "leadership team" (non leadership team leaders are not encouraged - actually they're discouraged). None of the leaders have any formal training (if minimal outdoor ability) yet they regularly take people on fairly dangerous excursions where slipping off a rock down the side of a hill is a pretty likely happening.

When I spoke to the person who started the group about the liability he and his fellow organisers were opening themselves to by arranging these activities as well as contravening the law in SG regarding unregistered societies his response was "but I don't want more admin work" and to update the T&C's to include "the group only exists in cyberspace" despite meeting up regularly in the flesh as well! (they were also included in TimeOut in a feature on different groups in Singapore)

In some respects I can't wait for something to happen that requires that one of them gets into trouble. I've told them about personal liability for these trips, and the answer is an indemnity form - yet they are receiving compensation for the trips, but don't have any training (they won't disclose how much - a similar group does however). On one trip the leader said something that could've been construed as suggesting that travel insurance was NOT necessary for the trip (caving in MY) and I can tell you now that they have no plan for dealing with any emergencies.

They think that the world outside SG is as safe and mollycoddled as SG and nothing bad will ever happen to them and that just by writing a few words they can change what they essentially are - a society of 3k people of which at least a couple hundred meet in the flesh on a regular basis. And when the smelly stuff goes flying I want to be there to see it (fortunately the majority of their members are locals, so don't know any better either)

Sorry - just needed to rant

[x9200]

I bet they perfectly know that the word is not safe. They just think that T&C gives them the legal protection. This is typical not only of Singapore but here is kind of to the highest absurd levels. IMO not only such notes give no protection so they will be held liable to the extent corresponding to they responsibility of a mishap but if s**t happens abroad it will be also the other countries jurisdiction.

[NorrinRadd]

Remind them of the Singapore Dragonboat team in Cambodia a few years back.

[nakatago]

A Singaporean once told me that there are a lot of tai chi masters in Singapore: a responsibility is given to them...(circular motions with arms while shifting weights on feet)...and pass it to the next person.

[morenangpinay]

is that the group that posted "Rock Climbing..." when it should be Wall climbing because its inside a gym and they will be climbing walls..

i also observed they put beginners are welcome when its obvious the activity will need some form of athleticism. Even trekking is dangerous but they seem to treat is as nothing but strolling..