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Choosing a Race

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 3:55 pm

beppi, funny enough, I do exactly the same thing. Especially seeing I'm around them more than around my own kind. Being a member of the Resident's Committee, it make a good ground breaker, especially at PA dinners. I just usually intro myself and their "Token Ang Moh" giving face to their table. Works a treat! :-)

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 4:48 pm

I do the same and it never stops to surprise me that they are surprised that an Angmoh knows the phrase Angmoh.

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Postby beppi » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 5:16 pm

The MP of Clementi is commonly referred to as "Ang Moh Kia" (Kia = boy) by the locals, because he has fair skin and less slanted eyes. He is Chinese and quite popular, so I'm sure no derogatory meaning is intended.

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Postby sensei_ » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 7:33 pm

beppi wrote:The MP of Clementi is commonly referred to as "Ang Moh Kia" (Kia = boy) by the locals, because he has fair skin and less slanted eyes. He is Chinese and quite popular, so I'm sure no derogatory meaning is intended.


could also mean that he has a very strong western education. at least that is what some called me when i was in their office. just like some prefer to say "jiak kan tang" (eat potatoes)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 8:58 pm

So they though you were a pompous arse did they? Being Asian and speaking with an adopted put on aussie accent izzit? :lol:

That's okay, you've lived there long enough but the ones I find funny are the locals who go on a 4 night 5 day tour of the UK and come back with received pronunciation. I gotta laugh as they are like parrots. It's okay until they go to their kopitiam and try to order kopi-c and the kopi auntie cannot understand them. They change back real quick! :)

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Postby v4jr4 » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 9:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So they though you were a pompous arse did they? Being Asian and speaking with an adopted put on aussie accent izzit? :lol:

That's okay, you've lived there long enough but the ones I find funny are the locals who go on a 4 night 5 day tour of the UK and come back with received pronunciation. I gotta laugh as they are like parrots. It's okay until they go to their kopitiam and try to order kopi-c and the kopi auntie cannot understand them. They change back real quick! :)


:lol:
I'm starting to imagine an auntie in kopitiam says "Espresso? Hamik kui?" (translate: "Espresso? What the devil is that?") :lol:
"Budget Expat"

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Postby Brah » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 9:31 pm

I notice you didn't answer my question

the lynx wrote:Brah,

Somehow I'm sensing that you're putting me in a spot here, all because I was telling the situation as it is. Had I not revealed how the phrase came to be, would you have known about it already? My advantage is that I know Hokkien and I'm sharing here for everyone to understand. So please do not shoot the messenger.

And that orang-utan-is-adorable line was to respond to x92's opinion that orang-utans have nothing derogatory in them. And the direction of that conversation is hence, off already.

I was explaining further on from my perspective how (slurs) here came to be, and nothing in my posts here condone such action. As other posters already noted, it is a matter of educating them and breaking them out of the pattern.

Thanks for your benefit of doubt, nevertheless. At least we all know we are discussing this on a level ground.

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Postby Brah » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 9:57 pm

For you to even say things like 'emo' and 'disadvantaged' you put your own spin on what I wrote. If you're not up to the discussion on its intended merits you can always bow out, it's hard to have that conversation when words or meanings are twisted.

As I find your other posts well-balanced I'll take it that you misinterpreted this one of mine.

The racism I referred to is the unspoken racism between Indians / Malays / Singaporean Chinese / probably other Asians living here, and from what I understand, when it does exist, as of course not everyone is racist, that it's generally one-way from the Chinese on down. Of course as I'm not from any of those backgrounds I can't really comment on the veracity or prevalence of it, just what I read and hear about. But this is out of context on the Ang Moh topic, which is what we're really talking about.

Not sure how long you've lived here, I've been here a number of years, and most of them on this forum. We've had numerous, lively and intelligent discussions about how some don't like and some don't care about the term Ang Moh, and if I remember correctly it was usually about 50-50 for and against.

At the risk of taking Lynx's information out of context as being universal fact vs. what may be a very localized colloquialism, it was new to even someone like me who has been here for as long as I have, and it reopened some of those questions from past discussions.

My last question is yet to be answered, so until then, and until I'm comfortable with what I hear, I remain suspect of the Ang Moh term as a mask for Ang Moh Kau.

And while I don't care for being called Red Hair, it's a whole different level to be called a monkey, remember I lived in Japan where that term is a no-no and I was careful when using it in common conversation so as to it not be misconstrued.

If you want to color that emo (isn't that some kind of crappy 00s music?), or if you're ok being insulted when those insulting you do so anticipating your ignorance or lack of understanding, that is your prerogative. But I'm just not wired that way, armed with the knowledge of the (de)meaning and intent, to idly accept it. I don't do that to others and I ain't gonna let other do that to me, unless of course they like the taste of a knuckle sandwich.

zzm9980 wrote:The amount of emo in this thread over "racism" against the white man is amazing. Tell me Brah, do you really feel disadvantaged in Asia because of your skin color?

Brah wrote:To be honest I'm not sure what side of the fence you're on Lynx as you're playing both sides, and I sense you're backtracking.


And to somehow read any kind of ill-intent into what Lynx posted is even more mind-boggling. Just judging by her from the forum, I'd bet a paycheck she isn't one of the aunties calling you a red haired monkey on the MRT behind your back during the commute to/from your skin-color challenged daily existence in this little red dot :)

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Postby Brah » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:12 pm

So what is your counter if you were to be called a monkey?

I don't speak Hokkien so wouldn't know the appropriate response. "Orh Moh" or "Orh Moh Kau"?

And BTW, your location is "Chocolate City" - from my Parliament / Funkadelic days do I recall that correctly as being Washington DC?

v4jr4 wrote:That's why, educated or not, I believe "counter attack" or "friendly fire" is kinda important. If he/she wants to attack but doesn't want to accept the counter attack, then I don't have to bother him/her :P

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Postby Brah » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:25 pm

Well, judge is a strong word. But I get what you're saying, and I think I covered it with the movies analogy.

I guess the thing is I/we won't always know when the intent is derogatory. From earlier threads we've covered how it's not meant by some as an insult. Ang Moh that is, not Ang Moh Kau.

Another analogy is the N-word - a lot of Black comedians and singers toss the term around casually, and between some African Americans in some situations it seems to be 'ok', but said in the wrong way or setting it is a very ugly word.

The difference being I am familiar with the context of that word, but not the various nuances of Hokkien from strangers.

And within my own circles did we not call ourselves the equivalents of the N-word and others? Yeah, we used to, and it was all in good fun. In those circles.



...so many responses tonight....I just hope from them we all come to a better understanding, and recognize that what may be ok for one person is not for another, and that does not make that person 'sensitive' when dealing with not outright bigots, but those posing as the contrary.
.
x9200 wrote:But do you or better say we actually know what emotional load it carries for them? You judge them at this point only by the literal meaning of this phrase but in reality it could be pretty neutral.
Last edited by Brah on Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sensei_ » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:26 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So they though you were a pompous arse did they? Being Asian and speaking with an adopted put on aussie accent izzit? :lol:

That's okay, you've lived there long enough but the ones I find funny are the locals who go on a 4 night 5 day tour of the UK and come back with received pronunciation. I gotta laugh as they are like parrots. It's okay until they go to their kopitiam and try to order kopi-c and the kopi auntie cannot understand them. They change back real quick! :)


wierdly enough i apparently do not have much of an aussie accent, and according to some my hokkien is purer than those spoken in sg, some have said closer to taiwan minnan. *shrugs*

where i am from and where i grew up is not important. whats more important is the results.

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Postby v4jr4 » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:30 pm

It was happened long time ago. I used the similar patterns for counter attack, the other side couldn't accept, and things went physical without warning. Good thing is, no similar case happened afterwards. Not sure if it will happen again, since I'm not too good in maintaining a relationship with "bad spots".

The "Chocolate Factory" itself refers to Willy Wonka (kinda love that movie) :lol:

Brah wrote:So what is your counter if you were to be called a monkey?

I don't speak Hokkien so wouldn't know the appropriate response. "Orh Moh" or "Orh Moh Kau"?

And BTW, your location is "Chocolate City" - from my Parliament / Funkadelic days do I recall that correctly as being Washington DC?

v4jr4 wrote:That's why, educated or not, I believe "counter attack" or "friendly fire" is kinda important. If he/she wants to attack but doesn't want to accept the counter attack, then I don't have to bother him/her :P
"Budget Expat"

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Postby Brah » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:41 pm

v4jr4 wrote:The "Chocolate Factory" itself refers to Willy Wonka (kinda love that movie) :lol:

Brah wrote:And BTW, your location is "Chocolate City" - from my Parliament / Funkadelic days do I recall that correctly as being Washington DC?



Wow I totally misread that, must be because I was shopping for one of their CDs on Amazon last week and still had it in my head.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 08 Sep 2012 2:29 pm

http://www.angryangmo.com/2009/03/31/ang-moh-racism/

Pretty reasonable overview IMO.
It is also a good exercise to feed google with the phrase and see the context the locals use it. It's more easy this way to read their intentions and while there are some discussions where the use is clearly derogative I would say for the majority it is purely for the naming purpose.

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Postby Brah » Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:17 am

From what I've read of her posts, no I don't think she is the discriminating type, and more to the contrary, though Lynx has not said if she ever used the term AMK before, in jest or otherwise.

But I really still want to know whether or not AM is short for AMK. So far only the foreigners are speaking out on that, and few save for lifers like SMS or OOD would have been immersed in the culture deep enough or long enough to be able to really know with authority.


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