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PR Application rejected 2 times and wife feels upset..

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 02 May 2012 9:34 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:ZZM, the biggest difference is you are not Malaysian Chinese.


Ah, so Malaysian Chinese is a plus, but only if they stay pure to their master race? You're not kidding when you talk about the singaporean version of the aryan nation.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 May 2012 10:12 am

Sadly, no. Although I was floored a year or so ago when leeky made the statement regarding mixed marriages become much more the norm and probably a good idea. I remember when he was vehemently 100% the opposite back in the 80's.

In fact, I used to work as a part time actor for SBC (later TCS and now MediaCorp) which was still under a statutory board back then (government supervision). In one series I played the Texan Husband married to a Singaporean Chinese girl. The only way the Statutory board would let it fly was for the party scene to take place at "my ranch in Texas" rather than at the family home in Singapore. e.g., mixed marriages do not have a place in Singapore. I was in the forefront in real life here as well as I have been married to a local girl (albeit not Chinese - which I think was leeky's thrust as he could care less about the other races here) for 29 years now.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 02 May 2012 10:37 am

Interesting SMS. I've met a fair number of Singaporeans of mixed Indian/Chinese heritage, aged anywhere from 20yr-50yr. It gave me the impression it was more common than it seems to be.

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Postby therat » Wed, 02 May 2012 11:16 am

it's more common nowadays but it will still raise eyebrow.

My cousin (local Chinese) marry a Malay lady (local Malay) and had to convert to Muslim.
As he is the only son, his parent was darn upset during that time.

It took them yrs to accept the fact.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 May 2012 12:55 pm

ZZM, if you check the heritage closely, you may well find the in the majority of those mixed races the parents are generally Indian males and Chinese females. While there are the reverse, these are extremely rare (like in my Chinese Uncle's case - but he was raised by an Indian family as a child) usually it a result of the Chinese penchant of the males always marrying down as they must be seen as superior to the wife in a patriarchal society. This leaves a dearth of highly educated female Chinese who, if they want to get married either have to immigrate to China or marry outside of their race. At least this is how it was explained to me many years ago.

Edited because of dyslexic typing!
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Wed, 02 May 2012 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 02 May 2012 1:00 pm

therat wrote:it's more common nowadays but it will still raise eyebrow.

My cousin (local Chinese) marry a Malay lady (local Malay) and had to convert to Muslim.
As he is the only son, his parent was darn upset during that time.

It took them yrs to accept the fact.


As much as I abhor that kind of reaction, it is a sad truth in this society. I have met and known far too many examples of that...

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Postby sweetgazebo » Wed, 02 May 2012 1:19 pm

back in kl i know of some chinese parents who would immediately disown their kids if they married a muslim or indian. My cousin is one. to his very last breath her father never accepted the muslim hubby. but her mum has come to terms with it and is slowly welcoming her home.

in m'asia aside with society viewing it as being taboo on marrying someone outside the race, it's especially more to do with the investments, properties and land that will be taken away by the government once the muslim hubby passes on. numerous cases have been fought in the syariah court despite the hubby initially being of another religion but converted upon marrying a muslim and the ex-wife and family is still alive and never converted.

i've had friends who will have to think really hard if they want to tie the knot with esp a muslim man because of this.


therat wrote:it's more common nowadays but it will still raise eyebrow.

My cousin (local Chinese) marry a Malay lady (local Malay) and had to convert to Muslim.
As he is the only son, his parent was darn upset during that time.

It took them yrs to accept the fact.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 May 2012 3:00 pm

zzm9980 wrote:Interesting SMS. I've met a fair number of Singaporeans of mixed Indian/Chinese heritage, aged anywhere from 20yr-50yr. It gave me the impression it was more common than it seems to be.


My wife is Eurasian, and yet even during her schooling (c.20 years ago) there was was no such categorisation as Eurasian, unlike her other friends she was 'Other' which certainly caused some ignominy.

Then as recently as 2009 there was a street exhibition on Orchard in front of Ngee Ann. I believe it must have been centred around marriage in SG. I was interested to see one of the perhaps dozen display units (the size of a garden hut, i.e. space for multiple display items and boards on and within the single unit) was dedicated to Eurasian marriages.

I suppose if you have the lowest birthrate in the world you welcome any born SGn who wants to get married...

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 02 May 2012 3:53 pm

I will try to clear some myth and practices over the years

1. It is true that if a Chinese family had a female child, it will be given away many years ago. My mom was one of them. this happen many years ago
2. I am a true born "other" race written on my IC. I had difficulty in geting loan from PSC as they do not cater for "other" race. You cannot seek PAP grassroots help as you are not sure which race you belong to and they will push you from one group to another. Basically they left you in the ditch to die.
3. Mixed marriages between Indian and Chinese. If the male is Indian , chances are the wife is adopted and has transform herself into Indian cultures from head to toe

Immigration policy
1. No Malay/Muslim scholars , intellects from Malaysia, Indonesia will ever get EP from MOM. They have to jump over hoops and their chances of approval is so slim compare to finding a dinosaur's egg
2. Thai female applicant will always be assume as working girl at the brothel hence their application will be scrutinise with a fine tooth comb
3. During the 80s and 90s, the Peens were so good in having dodgy papers that MOM basically started the approve institutions category
4. MOM and ICA thought getting PRC workers will make the assimilation easier and making them PR and then Sger to increase the FTR but how wrong they were
5. In Mindef, the selection of echelon officers and NCOs to sensitive areas will depend heavily on their race, family ties and education. You cannot see one dark soul in those sensitive areas
6. Even Leeky has a daughter in law that was Indian but it does not go down well and the ending was inevitable

These were some issues which encompasses not only immigration but many many other areas when they are managed by "arm chair damagers" not leaders
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Postby the lynx » Wed, 02 May 2012 5:06 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:ZZM, if you check the heritage closely, you may well find the in the majority of those mixed races the parents are generally Indian males and Chinese females. While there are the reverse, these are extremely rare (like in my Chinese Uncle's case - but he was raised by an Indian family as a child) usually it a result of the Chinese penchant of the males always marrying down as they must be seen as superior to the wife in a patriarchal society. This leaves a dearth of lower educated female Chinese who, if they want to get married either have to immigrate to China or marry outside of their race. At least this is how it was explained to me many years ago.


I'm not sure if I am reading it correctly but are you saying that when all Chinese men try to 'marry down' to continuously appear superior to the wife in a patriarchal society, that will leave highly educated or lowly educated Chinese women out of the desirable mating pool?

Anyway, from what I have observed in my life, the former stands true. Usually Chinese women around here, who marry Indian men, tend to be highly educated, open minded and consequently, having problems from male counterparts. Due to the male superiority complex in Chinese culture, it unfortunately breeds many (not all) men who fail to see the need to improve/upgrade/broaden themselves (aside from the ability to make more money) because they will always be able to marry someone beneath them, if not equal.

"Got problem? Just go for order-mail bride from Vietnam, China etc. (OK maybe not anymore in Singapore context, so go for any willing Indonesian/Malaysian Chinese women)"

And...you will also see that the Indian husbands who marry such Chinese women are also as highly educated and qualified as the wives, if not better.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 May 2012 5:28 pm

I got it bass ackwards! :oops: :shit: I was thinking right but typing wrong. Thanks for catching that! :(

Have corrected it!

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Postby OkLah » Thu, 03 May 2012 8:31 am

MS, how do you explain the case of Tan Sri Hassan Marican, the former CEO of Petronas who is set to become the chairman of Singapore Power in June? Do you think they might have parachuted him into a PR-ship or who knows maybe even citizenship given his calibre?

Mad Scientist wrote:
Immigration policy
1. No Malay/Muslim scholars , intellects from Malaysia, Indonesia will ever get EP from MOM. They have to jump over hoops and their chances of approval is so slim compare to finding a dinosaur's egg

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 May 2012 8:45 am

Tan Sri Hassan Marican doesn't need PR to be chairman of the board. He's also on the board of SembCorp Industries Limited, SembCorp Marine Limited, Sarawak Energy Berhad and US oil and gas giant ConocoPhillips.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 03 May 2012 11:21 am

OkLah wrote:MS, how do you explain the case of Tan Sri Hassan Marican, the former CEO of Petronas who is set to become the chairman of Singapore Power in June? Do you think they might have parachuted him into a PR-ship or who knows maybe even citizenship given his calibre?

Mad Scientist wrote:
Immigration policy
1. No Malay/Muslim scholars , intellects from Malaysia, Indonesia will ever get EP from MOM. They have to jump over hoops and their chances of approval is so slim compare to finding a dinosaur's egg


You are talking about two different type of people. Politicians/VIPs and commoners like us. Big Difference.
There are about 20 honorory citizens from other countries that are giving advice on how to shape this country. None of them need to forego their citizenship to acquire SG citizenship
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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 04 May 2012 4:11 pm

Food For thought
If your Singapore PR (Permanent Residency) is rejected recently, you are not alone. Singapore PR is an important to immigrate to Singapore and rejection is a heart breaking experience after long months of waiting and maybe witnessing less qualified people getting approval. But nowadays it is though to get Singapore PR. Since 2009, fewer applications for Singapore PR and Singapore Citizenship are approved.

This is because in late 2009, Singapore Government decided to tighten the criteria for PR and citizenship, to better manage the inflow of foreigners. And they immediately took action! In 2008, 79,200 Singapore PR applications were approved. PR approval numbers sharply dropped down to 59,500 in 2009. This trend continued in 2010 and The Government granted only 29,265 permanent residents, more than a 50% drop compared to 2009. It is almost certain that this trend will continue in 2011 Singapore PR applications.

2010 numbers point to the lowest PR intake in at least five years:

The sharp drop in PRs is a result of the tightening of immigration policy in 2009 to better manage the inflow and quality of new immigrants, said Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng on Monday.

A policy change that drew clearer distinctions between the benefits citizens and PRs enjoy also 'underlines our principle that Singaporeans will enjoy priority over non-citizens', he said at the Singapore Perspectives 2011 conference organised by the Institute of Policy Studies.

Source: The Apek Source Jan 18, 2011


Number of Singapore PRs approved per year (2001 - 2010)
It is also interesting to note that the number of Singapore permanent residents has almost doubled in the last 10 years, from 287,500 in 2000 to 541,000 in 2010:

Most of the increase is accounted for by immigrants from Malaysia and the Indian subcontinent, according to census data released by the Department of Statistics yesterday.

The share of Indians in the PR ethnic mix climbed from 14.9 per cent in 2000 to 20.4 per cent this year. In absolute numbers, they more than doubled, from 42,700 to 111,000.

The share of Chinese in the PR ethnic mix dropped from 76.1 per cent to 61.4 per cent, although the total number increased from 218,800 to 332,000.

For PRs of Malay ethnicity, the share dropped from 4.1 per cent to 3 per cent, although actual numbers went up from 11,800 to 16,000.

Most of the ethnic Chinese PRs in Singapore hail from Malaysia.

Source: The Ah Lian Sep 1, 2010

This looks like sharp drop but Singapore is still one of the least stringent country in the world in terms of approving PR. As far as I know Australia PR or Canada PR are more difficult.

Singapore is considered one of the best cities to live in Asia and many aspire to make this country their home forever by applying for Singapore Permanent Residence or Singapore Citizenship. While Singapore’s immigration policy remains open, the government wants to make sure that it takes in good quality candidates who can be better integrated into the Singapore society and who can contribute economically. There is no formula that guarantees success of an application. Each application is approved on a case-by-case basis.

Source: The Ah Chong Source

Singapore PR approval criteria, naturally, is not open to public and subject to change depending on the foreigner policies of The Government at a given time. But there are some known factors playing significant role in approval or rejection.

For example although it is theoretically possible to apply to PR just after receiving several pay slips, it is wise to wait at least 6 months to 1 year and it is better to pay tax. When I see someone just arriving Singapore and working several months apply to Singapore PR, I always think that "giving Singapore PR to this guy has more good to him then to Singapore". Probably Immigration Officers feel the same when they see such an application on their desk. And do not confuse them with the typical government employees in your homeland, Singapore Government jobs are so attractive that very bright people compete for them and get them.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ulP8elDepYo/T ... r+year.png
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