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Citizenship for my baby

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poison1
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Citizenship for my baby

Postby poison1 » Thu, 26 Apr 2012 1:45 pm

Hello,

I hope someone can offer me some advice. My baby boy is 10 weeks old and is automatically a Singapore citizen as he was born here.

I am British, but hold Singapore PR. My wife is born a Singapore citizen.

I do not fully understand all the implications of him being a Singapore citizen and it all seems quite convoluted. Perhaps people with experience may be able to offer advice.

Firstly, I am not concerned about him serving NS. This would be a good experience and is part of the national character.

I am concerned however that it seems I (he will likely be too young) will be forced to renounce his British or Singaporean citizenship at 11 or 21?

I am not sure whether we will settle here while he grows up, travel the world, or live in the UK.

My work can take me to other countries for several years. This worries me for my son as I have read about bonds, arrests and all sorts of conditions attached to renouncing Singapore citizenship.

Would it therefore make more sense for me to renounce his Singapore citizenship now and apply for PR for him? Would this be allowed? This way he could decide if he wants to be a neutralized Singaporean after completing his national service? Or do I just wait till he's 10 years old and make a decision based on our situation then?

Also, if we choose not to make a decision on his citizenship until he's 21, what will be the implications if he chooses to become Singaporean. Can he leave the country to say go backpacking for a year or two, or would his reservist commitments prohibit this?

Thanks heaps....

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 26 Apr 2012 2:17 pm

I'll let the others answer your other queries but from my limited knowledge:

* citizenship because of Singaporean mom, not because of being born in Singapore
* can be dual citizen until 21
* BUT must be citizen of another country by 11

You willing with NS helps greatly though but there may be other issues.

reference: sutra403041.html

NB: other implications would be in the same thread as well

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Re: Citizenship for my baby

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 27 Apr 2012 6:12 pm

poison1 wrote:Hello,


I am concerned however that it seems I (he will likely be too young) will be forced to renounce his British or Singaporean citizenship at 11 or 21?

21 is the age to choose either one NOT 11


I am not sure whether we will settle here while he grows up, travel the world, or live in the UK.

You can regain your son Brit PP if he choose to renounce SG PP at 21. I think the timeline to reapply is 30 (Not sure, but will check) since DAD is a Brit

My work can take me to other countries for several years. This worries me for my son as I have read about bonds, arrests and all sorts of conditions attached to renouncing Singapore citizenship.

Do not worry, read up Kraikk post which contain basically everything to do step by step


Would it therefore make more sense for me to renounce his Singapore citizenship now and apply for PR for him? Would this be allowed? This way he could decide if he wants to be a neutralized Singaporean after completing his national service? Or do I just wait till he's 10 years old and make a decision based on our situation then?

No , he is not allowed to apply PR. Ain't gonna happen . Mom is a Sger and your son is BORNED in SG which makes him a SGER

Also, if we choose not to make a decision on his citizenship until he's 21, what will be the implications if he chooses to become Singaporean. Can he leave the country to say go backpacking for a year or two, or would his reservist commitments prohibit this?

As long as he has done his NS, he can go backpacking for a year and apply for Exit Permit if he intends to stay out of SG for more than 3 months. No worries.


Thanks heaps....
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

poison1
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Postby poison1 » Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:57 pm

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

One question though, is it better for us to only get a British passport for our son? This way if we leave Singapore for good and he spends most of his teenage life elsewhere he will have had no socio-economic benefits from Singapore and have less problems with avoiding NS, if we have emigrated and he chooses not to return to do NS.

Also, it seems unfair to force children born out of mixed nationality couples to give up one nationality at such a young age of 21. I understand the government's "thinking" behind not allowing dual nationality for citizens who are born with only one nationality, but to discriminate against those who are born with the right to two nationalities is a little unfair. And perhaps robs Singapore of potential foreign talent that may return to live, work and contribute after their parents emigrated. Are there any moves to review this policy?

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Postby carteki » Mon, 30 Apr 2012 1:20 pm

poison1 wrote:Also, it seems unfair to force children born out of mixed nationality couples to give up one nationality at such a young age of 21. I understand the government's "thinking" behind not allowing dual nationality for citizens who are born with only one nationality, but to discriminate against those who are born with the right to two nationalities is a little unfair. And perhaps robs Singapore of potential foreign talent that may return to live, work and contribute after their parents emigrated. Are there any moves to review this policy?


You either chose to live with the rules or not. Its your choice.

Why do you call it discrimination or unfair? Hell, the fact that your kid has 21 years of hassle free travel and work in the EU (5 years) is more than most SG'ers have. Count your blessings rather than gripe for more.

In addition, some people might see it as fence sitting and looking to see where the grass is greener rather than just sucking it up and dealing with it. So what if it robs SG of potential FT - thats not your problem and the numbers are not that significant to make a dent in SG's pop issues so I don't see it becoming an agenda item anytime soon. In fact quite the opposite - if the gov't were to change the rules this would play into the "pr's aren't completely committed to Singapore" camp which is very very vocal at the moment (have you read the press lately?)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 30 Apr 2012 1:20 pm

poison1 wrote:Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

One question though, is it better for us to only get a British passport for our son? This way if we leave Singapore for good and he spends most of his teenage life elsewhere he will have had no socio-economic benefits from Singapore and have less problems with avoiding NS, if we have emigrated and he chooses not to return to do NS.

Also, it seems unfair to force children born out of mixed nationality couples to give up one nationality at such a young age of 21. I understand the government's "thinking" behind not allowing dual nationality for citizens who are born with only one nationality, but to discriminate against those who are born with the right to two nationalities is a little unfair. And perhaps robs Singapore of potential foreign talent that may return to live, work and contribute after their parents emigrated. Are there any moves to review this policy?


Young age of 21? I was an Nam Vet and discharged from the military 6 weeks before I turned 21. I think you need to review your parenting methods if you think 21 is still a child. How old were your parents when they got married the first time (it might have been the only time)?

The policy is correct from the Singapore Government's POV and there are a lot of countries that subscribe to the same Single Citizenship laws. It is their right and in the case of mixed nationalities, the parents should have given it due consideration before the child was born to determine the best choices to make. Frankly, my son is also of mixed parentage and has dual citizenship and is currently in the Singapore Navy doing his NS. Yes, he will have to make a choice when he gets out. It's his decision and his future. I'll not try to convince him in either way and it's been discussed with him annually ever since he was around 8 years old. It's a ritual that, while he didn't understand it fully at eight, he is going into it with his eyes wide open. What will he ultimately do? I have no idea. It's his choice. I cannot live his life for him, nor expect him to live his life the way I or my wife might want for him. He, just like me, has to walk to his own drummer. I've done my best to equip him for the journey. But it's his to take the first step.

Get both citizenships as soon as possible, educate him on both countries as much as possible. Set in motion the necessary to have him opt out of NS IF you are sure you will not be in Singapore and he never wants to come back. But, my way of thinking is that by doing NS, he doesn't burn ANY bridges, and he creates a network that will stand the test of time in Singapore by doing NS. He can still give up his Singapore citizenship at 21 but by doing his NS, he will not hamper his abilities to return to Singapore in the future to work here (subject to qualifying for the position). Skip NS, you cut out one lung.

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Postby poison1 » Mon, 30 Apr 2012 1:44 pm

Thanks heaps for your comments. They all help me form a balanced view. Much appreciated.

Any ideas on the passport? Just get a British one for the time being?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 30 Apr 2012 2:40 pm

Get him both passports. As he is a Singapore Citizen, he has to enter Singapore using his Singapore Passport. If he were to enter on his British passport it would cause him to have to leave once his Visa was up. Traveling is a no-brainer. Enter & leave Singapore using a Singapore passport, enter & leave Britain on a British Passport. Other countries? Use whichever one will not require a visa being applied for prior to departure.

There is not any laws to prevent him from carrying two passports up to the age of 21.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 30 Apr 2012 5:26 pm

OP

You are missing the point. He is a Sger period. For him he has to apply SG PP as he is born here. You can acquire for your son a UKPP but other than that he has to follow the protocol if he wishes to renounce SG PP at the age of 21. Alternatively leave SG for good before your child turn 5 and he is not require to follow all those mumbo jumbo steps till 21
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