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Re: SG Manners????

Postby x9200 » Wed, 16 May 2012 1:04 pm

Art23 wrote:I have to agree. I have been here a couple of years now and I am getting fed up with the rudeness of the people here. At first I passed it off with being the "culture", but now, they are just damn rude. The expats are getting almost as bad. I can't believe how many expats I have passed on the street and said hi just to be ignored. What is wrong with you people. Are you that callous that you have turned into one of them? Or do you just think you are too good for us other expats. I love working in Singapore, just hate going anywhere anymore.

Are you looking for some (false) sens of racial/expat unity? I don't think it is even in the Western culture to greet every passing Westerner (?) on the street. I often smile but I don't think even this is a Western norm so probably you are counterreacting here some odd way. Of course if you say "hi" to me I will react but my response will vary depending on the way you do it and I am not surprised at all that some people may be that surprised to ignore this display of your friendliness :)
And yes, this is still a cultural thing.

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Re: SG Manners????

Postby Mi Amigo » Wed, 16 May 2012 3:37 pm

x9200 wrote:Are you looking for some (false) sens of racial/expat unity? I don't think it is even in the Western culture to greet every passing Westerner (?) on the street. I often smile but I don't think even this is a Western norm so probably you are counterreacting here some odd way. Of course if you say "hi" to me I will react but my response will vary depending on the way you do it and I am not surprised at all that some people may be that surprised to ignore this display of your friendliness :)
And yes, this is still a cultural thing.

Yes, it's a cultural thing and also highly variable geographically in my experience. I lived in Atlanta for a while and nearly freaked out at first when random people would say hi to me when passing in the street, or start talking to me at the petrol (sorry, gas) station. Then I realised to my shame that they were just being friendly and I was being the cold grumpy Brit. So I got into the local habit, but then after I moved back to the UK a colleague at my new place of work took me aside one day and said something like, "Look, you seem to be a decent chap, we like you, but for crying out loud will you please stop asking everyone how they're doing? It's so annoying!"

Some Brits can be rude and unsociable, for sure, but I too found it hard at first to adjust to the general disinterest, indifference and 'bubble' mentality of many here. The trick is to try to avoid it gtting to you. I still say 'Good morning!' to my neighbours in the lift, etc. and I don't really care whether they like it or not. Good manners cost nothing and all that.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 16 May 2012 3:40 pm

Being Asian, I'm not used to strangers being friendly. What I do is I just smile and nod my head when someone greets me.

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 16 May 2012 3:49 pm

Nah, I will just mirror :P

You greet, I greet.
You smile, I smile.



Except if you do a triple somersault while waving at me... I think I'd flash my phone out and take a video.

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 16 May 2012 4:19 pm

Greeting your neighbors or people in the place you live in is natural, but all the strangers on the street? Fine if we wait together for a traffic light change and catch an eye-contact but just passing each other? I mean, nothing wrong in this of course, but I would not expect everybody to follow this rule and call them rude just for not responding properly.

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Re: SG Manners????

Postby JR8 » Wed, 16 May 2012 4:59 pm

Art23 wrote:I have to agree. I have been here a couple of years now and I am getting fed up with the rudeness of the people here. At first I passed it off with being the "culture", but now, they are just damn rude. The expats are getting almost as bad. I can't believe how many expats I have passed on the street and said hi just to be ignored. What is wrong with you people. Are you that callous that you have turned into one of them? Or do you just think you are too good for us other expats. I love working in Singapore, just hate going anywhere anymore.


There certainly is a snobbery amongst some expats. I don't quite get the dynamic.... Maybe it is ,I,m more of an expat than you are...,

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 16 May 2012 5:16 pm

^^^^

+1


Spot on. Unless you belong to the requisite "club", eat at the requisite "establishments" and play golf at certain clubs, you are a nobody and if you forego a vehicle, dog forbid. Please don't call yourself an expat. In fact, if you don't make 250K/annum and all expenses are fully found, you just don't qualify.

Personally, they aren't any better than this ole farm boy. They put their trousers on one leg at a time, just like me. They carry a passport that doesn't have Singapore on the front, just like me. They need to actually look up the definition of Expatriate. Heaven forbid when they learn that the Thai construction worker is exactly the same thing. :cool:


JR8! Where you been hiding the last couple of days or so!

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Re: SG Manners????

Postby BigSis » Wed, 16 May 2012 5:42 pm

Art23 wrote:I have to agree. I have been here a couple of years now and I am getting fed up with the rudeness of the people here. At first I passed it off with being the "culture", but now, they are just damn rude. The expats are getting almost as bad. I can't believe how many expats I have passed on the street and said hi just to be ignored. What is wrong with you people. Are you that callous that you have turned into one of them? Or do you just think you are too good for us other expats. I love working in Singapore, just hate going anywhere anymore.


Saying 'hi' to complete strangers isn't really a city 'thing'. People in villages and small towns do it but that's because they see the same people more often.

If someone walking past me in my condo said hi or someone I saw every day walking to the bus stop then that's one thing, but a random stranger just walking down the road - I'd probably say 'hi' back but assume they'd mistaken me for someone they do know.

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Re: SG Manners????

Postby NorrinRadd » Wed, 16 May 2012 8:51 pm

BigSis wrote:Saying 'hi' to complete strangers isn't really a city 'thing'. People in villages and small towns do it but that's because they see the same people more often.

If someone walking past me in my condo said hi or someone I saw every day walking to the bus stop then that's one thing, but a random stranger just walking down the road - I'd probably say 'hi' back but assume they'd mistaken me for someone they do know.


+1

And on occasion I have assumed I was mistaken just like this.

And I feel I'm a little rude or unfriendly in chirpy environments, which make me bristle, but nothing against those people, I just don't share their enthusiasm for strangers and instead choose to respect people's space.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 18 May 2012 8:58 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

JR8! Where you been hiding the last couple of days or so!


Oh thought I,d subtlety flagged I was off on my dive travels. Check my ip :wink:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 18 May 2012 10:12 pm

I just hired two of their natives this afternoon. :-)

Damn jealous I'm am! :cool: Enjoy! But be careful how you post. I might mistake you for a spammer! :lol:

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Postby lucretia1201 » Sat, 26 May 2012 10:16 pm

Hi, I am a new to this forum. I was looking for some insight on recommended agencies for domestic help when I chanced upon this discussion. Just to be clear, I am a Singaporean (don't hate me :) ) and while I disagree with some view points of Singaporeans there are many that I agree on. I do actually agree that many Singaporeans lack common courtesy and have questionable mannerisms. And I have been the brunt of this many a times despite my nationality. It could very well be a cultural difference but to treat people (any person) with a lack of courtesy, I feel is not acceptable especially if it is completely uncalled for. Growing up I always remembered the vastly advertised Courtesy Campaigns I saw on TVs (even the Green Frog) and I remember how papers used to parade about what a courteous country Singapore is but I have seen this come to cease over the years.

Singaporeans (not all) seem to have this notion that their behavior is socially acceptable when in actuality it's not. There are so many social issues in this country, I do not even know where to begin.

Usually I see rudeness a lot from the older generation. There are though a couple of people in their early 20s who display the same level of rudeness. Pushing people around in a crowded train, I even came across a lady who decided she should sit in the middle of the train cabin on the floor despite the fact that she was sort of in the way of people getting into the train (it was during Rush hour to Raffles Place in the morning) and she yelled at the person (presumably another local) that it was her business to sit wherever she liked. And I have had taxi drivers who refused to accept payment through cab charge (my company's) simply because he didn't want to and started hurling rude remarks about my race (I am indian). And I have had people calling me black on numerous occasions both growing up and at work. I used to get a little hurt by that remark as it actually is very insensitive now I just smile laugh and say "And yes you are yellow and that makes us even". When I was 8 months pregnant I have had people on the train who instantly went to sleep when I boarded the train.

I think the influx on Foreign Talent is the least of our problems. Standards of living changes all the time, yes it may have been a huge leap in recent years but some Singaporeans as disgruntled as they maybe, still continue to buy ridiculously expensive cars or HDB flats.

In fact I think this country at times is so driven by social status that they do not stop to think of situations in other countries. At 16, I was very fortunate to have worked with some of the homes founded by the late Mother Theresa. And I daresay that experience changed my perspective on many things. For starters, some Singaporeans do not know how good we have it. To be able to have roof over our heads even the poor is something we should be thankful for that every day. In calcutta there were so many people who slept in tents at the side of the road. In East Timor, there were so many children who were deprived of basic necessities such as food and healthcare.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me, but personally I think the locals are threatened by Foreign Talents for fear that they may lose the edge over a promotion. I see this work every day for the last 4 years with this Chinese Lady at work. My supervisor who happens to be a Brit, I empathize with him at times because he has to deal with a bunch of kindergarten kids who see everything as a threat and cannot see beyond what they want. It even got to the extent of them yelling at a fellow colleague from the Philippines. Here's what I do not understand even as a Singaporean, if you want to climb the corporate ladder then why not just make your skill set be worthy of your promotion and take the bull by the horn when the job opens up rather then whine about how unfair it is to hire a foreigner instead of promoting from within. I for one if I feel I am suitable for a position I would present my case to my superiors.

In the case of domestic workers, I feel that it's perfectly fine to award your helper a day of rest every week. I mean put yourself in the worker's shoes, how would you feel if you worked everyday slept and ate in your office cubicle without a day to yourself for 2 years straight? Probably get yourself admitted in the asylum at the end of that 2 years probably. Yes some employers have a huge concern with what if the helper got pregnant or ran away. But I have had colleagues who had advised me against hiring a fillipina maid on the pretext that they are "wild" and have a tendency to go wayward. But I feel that having a domestic helper is really all about the "fit" and mutual understanding and respect. She is your employee not your slave. And she is going to be with you for a minimum 2 years so whilst there should be boundaries you cannot deny the fact that she is going to be a part of your family and it's important that she is properly integrated into your household.
I had a wonderful helper who joined my household a month before I gave birth. As a first time mother, I was anxious and nervous about being prepared before I gave birth and she literally helped me pick out everything from the sort of crib to buy, the kind of baby detergent to get, which diaper brand is agreeable to a baby's skin and what size cotton buds to buy to clean the baby's ears. When I went into labour she made sure she prepared the crib and came by to the hospital after I gave birth bearing a romper that said "Welcome to the world". She was dream come true. I gave her a $200 salary increment from her previous employer and from 0 days off I gave her 4 days a month simply because I feel with the right "fit" you can trust them. And they are entitled to a personal life.

I think what lacks in some Singaporeans is plain out maturity. At 40 they do have a tendency to behave like 12 year olds. They expect everything to be handed over to them on a silver platter. Selfish maybe.

But I would also add that this is not the case with many Singaporeans, just a certain group of them.

I am sorry for everything all of your have gone through with our lot.

It's just a bunch of ingrates that comes with every society. We just got to adapt at times.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 May 2012 11:06 pm

As you are in a mixed marriage, do you think that your perceptions may be clouded because of race issues rather than just rudeness of the rest of your countrymen? My wife used to also have the same problems you speak of when she was pregnant with our children and using public transport. There are some very nice people in Singapore, but there are a core bunch that causes the whole barrel to be tarred with the same brush. Anyway, welcome to the party here. And while you are friends with my daughter on FB I'll just let you wonder about that is. :wink: :cool:

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Postby lucretia1201 » Sun, 27 May 2012 12:43 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:As you are in a mixed marriage, do you think that your perceptions may be clouded because of race issues rather than just rudeness of the rest of your countrymen? My wife used to also have the same problems you speak of when she was pregnant with our children and using public transport. There are some very nice people in Singapore, but there are a core bunch that causes the whole barrel to be tarred with the same brush. Anyway, welcome to the party here. And while you are friends with my daughter on FB I'll just let you wonder about that is. :wink: :cool:


Hi, thank you. Yes I am in a mixed marriage, my husband is eurasian and I am indian. :) As much as the "gahmen" advocates a multi-racial society, I do believe that there are as much race issues as there are issues on the influx on foreign talent. And both revolves around rudeness and lack of mannerism and tolerance to other races/nationalities. I have heard so many Singaporeans senselessly yap on and on about how Foreign Talents have ruined their chances on this and that through various mediums. It's like taking the slightest possible opportunity given to vent the frustrations that they may have towards the ruling party on Foreign Talent. It has become an excuse for everything and frankly it's gross. And it is quite contradicting especially when blatantly put every Singaporean here had forefathers who were expats. That's how this country came from a fishing village to a thriving business hub. Without the expats a century ago, I wonder.

Friends with your daughter on FB, lol, now I am intrigued. Which friend of mine has a sharp-tongued (not in a bad sense) father?

Have a great Sunday.

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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 27 May 2012 10:35 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote: And while you are friends with my daughter on FB I'll just let you wonder about that is. :wink: :cool:


Are links to people's Facebook profiles published somewhere I don't see? This is the second post in a week I've seen with different people talking about people's Facebook accts for people in theory they don't know.


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