"The Landlord wants to double your rental"

Discuss about where to live, renting a property, tenancy issues, property trend and property investment in Singapore.
Post Reply
Marc123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 2:32 am
Contact:

"The Landlord wants to double your rental"

Post by Marc123 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 4:05 am

We could not believe it, but this was the content of the last sms from the agent of my landlord, just a few weeks before renewing our contract.

We thought first that he just wanted us out. He replied however that he liked us as tenants, but

he was expecting a higher return on his investment
he believed that the market conditions changed dramatically since the time I signed the contract, 2 years ago
he was convinced that the amount asked was in line with the prices paid in the region for similar objects
In a nutshell, hew was trying his luck, waiting for a counteroffer.

We were puzzled. We had heard many urban stories in Singapore and elsewhere about how landlords and agents were trying to push rental prices up, but always thought that tenants taking good care of their place would be treated with respect. This blow took us by surprise !

All we knew is that we needed a roof, and that our current place was potentially going to cost us an additional SGD 40'000 (about USD 30'000) per year!

Our alternatives were quite simple. Negotiate the price down, or find another place where to live...

As a tenant, negotiating the asked price down was and is still a real challenge.

We were not aware of any regulatory protection for real estate rental prices in Singapore, like in many other countries. It is basically free market, up to the parties to find an agreement. And this includes renewals!
We had no idea about the prices paid in my region for similar objects
There are plenty of existing Internet platforms on real estate and rental, but those we could find were focused on ASKED prices set by landlords or agents
We could not get our heads around moving to a new place. This is just such a hassle!

It starts with the house hunting frenzy. There is the research, the phone calls and e-mails with agents/landlords, the uncoordinated visits at terrible times, the kilometers of road/train to cover from one place to the next, and the waiting times...
Then comes the negotiation. What should be the price to pay? What are the shortcomings we could not identify during the short house hunting visits?
Once the new contract is finally signed, it is time to go through the packing, moving and unpacking, followed by the administrative changes (address, etc) and the discovery of the hidden defects of the new place (barking dogs, proximity to the road which was quiet during the visit, etc.)
And on top come the costs of the move...
Despite all this, the difference between our current price and the price asked by the landlord was so wide that we decided to hit the road hard and seriously search for a new place.

It took us over a hundred of phone calls and e-mails, more than 60 visits, 500 km of road, train, taxi and motorbike, 8-10 hours a day for 7 days, but we finally made it... we found a better, much bigger place, at a better location, and with a friendly landlord. All this for a minor price increase compared to what we were paying.

We were exhausted, but decided to move!

On the day of leaving our apartment, by mere curiousity, we asked our Neighbours about the price they were paying for a similar place as ours. They came in one year after us and should have been hit by the dramatic market increase claimed by our landlord... to our surprise, they were actually paying... LESS than what we had been able to negotiate 2 years ago, at the bottom of the economic cycle. And we thought that we had a good deal!

We left this place and this landlord without any regret!
And we thought...

On one hand:

Tenants or Consumers only get to know the prices asked by landlords/agents/suppliers. Prices actually paid are not readily available to tenants.
The only way to get a generic idea of the ASKED PRICES is to run through extensive house hunting, browse internet platforms developed by and for suppliers, or trust what your agent or landlord tell you
House hunting is highly frustrating, uncoordinated and time consuming
Future tenants or users are not offered the opportunity to discuss with other Neighbours the qualities of the objects considered. Most of the time, it is too late to move back when hidden defects are identified...
On the other hand:

Suppliers, especially professional property agents, are well organised, some of them went through specialised training, and they maintain extensive databases, covering among others prices asked/paid in their market
While landlords need to find new tenants if they push the prices so high that they decide to leave, landlords don't have to bear the costs and hassle of moving
There is therefore a clear imbalance, and tenants/consumers end up paying too much in favor of suppliers. On top, they may end up discovering defects when it is too late to move back.

We want to change this and build an Online Community where Neighbours share the prices they pay and shed light on discrepancies between prices asked by suppliers and those actually paid for comparable objects
Based on this intelligence, Neighbours will be able to state the price they are ready to pay for objects advertised by suppliers and negotiate like pros!
The platform will also allow Neighbours to pass insider information about the object shared and help other Neighbours to avoid bad surprised when it is too late to move back.

Interested to join the force?

Singapore Property Search

 

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 4:31 am


curiousgeorge
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 1:12 am
Location: Singapore

Post by curiousgeorge » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 7:18 am

I Lol'd.


There is also a website somewhere from the gahmen that shows rentals in private condos...based I guess on stamp duty paid...can't lay my hands on it now...

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39564
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 8:32 am

CG,

I believe this may be what you were looking for. In any case is based on residential building with at least 10 rental contracts signed during the quarter. All one needs to have is the knowledge of the square footage of the unit they are looking at and extrapolate using the data provided. Download the Quarter desired as a PDF file and then open it in Adobe reader.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/realEstateWeb/rea ... roller.jpf


sms
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9872
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 8:41 am

Every situation like this is frustrating but there is nothing really special in it. Hundreds of people do it every day and they manage. The only specific thing about Singapore is not really rational behavior of the landlords. You should factor it in and that's roughly all about it. Your "nice" new landlord may ask you a doubled rent at the end of your new contract too.

teck21
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 1:37 pm

Post by teck21 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:23 am

yvonneera98765432 wrote:it depends, do u have a clause of Option to Renew? if yes, u may each ask a valuator to value the rental of the house and will take the averge of it - that is if u insist on staying there.. :) The landlord cant just say i want to double your rent like that.. :mad:
What?

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9872
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:31 am

(S)he probably meant when such clause typically says "at the prevailing market rates" but even if it does it is of a doubtful usefulness and hardly practical. Just ask yourself how one is going to execute such clause.

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6865
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 1:35 pm
Location: Once more unto the breach

Post by zzm9980 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 1:07 pm

Damn I'm really overpaying, by $600 a month according to this :(

Marc123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 2:32 am
Contact:

Post by Marc123 » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 6:05 pm

Thanks for your comments and yes, I was aware of URA in Singapore.
However and if what I found on this forum is correct (www.whatyourneighbourpaid.com), it's seems that it reflects only:

Statistics on Median rental contracts of non-landed private residential developments.

- Rentals are shown only for non-landed private residential developments with at least 100 units and with at least 10 contracts signed in the quarter.

- Rental rates are gross rentals.

- 25th percentile rental refers to the rental level at which 25% of the rentals in that residential project are at or below that level; 75th percentile rental refers to the rental level at which 25% of the rentals in that residential project are at or above that level

- Updated every 4th Friday of January, April, July and October.

I did a check with "asked price" on . and I was very much surprised by the price difference between URA median rental and asked price by agent/landlord, especially for the new developments.

Something does not tally! and I would like to hear someone who used this link for negotiating the price with agent/landlord. Was he/she successful in getting any closer to this median rental price? Was it for new or older condos?
I hear a lot of expats paying way more then what URA is publishing. I am really asking myself how this is possible if what is reflected in this stats is correct!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39564
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 16 Apr 2012 7:43 pm

So, may I assume that you assume that only expats rent? Expats usually pay the highest due to their inability to bargain properly. But, as long as you think you are getting a good deal, that's all that matters. Meanwhile the LL could be laughing all the way to the bank. However, a lot of condos are rented by locals as well, but you can bet they don't pay the "market" rates that Expats do. Walk into Tekka Market in Little India. Bet you don't pay the same prices as the locals there either.

You asked for help. We give you what is available. What you do with is is your business. Other, none-governmental sites aren't privy to the actual rentals being charged (e.g., the amounts shown on the contracts on which the stamp duties are paid or they have their own agenda.

You are welcome to follow those prices if you want. We only try to help, we don't guarantee that we can. No matter what the resource is, it can ONLY be used as a GUIDE and not carved in stone. The start of the quarter could be the beginning of a slide in prices or the inverse. As most are median you don't know what the trend for the quarter was.

Good Luck. Sounds to me like you already know it all. :wink: :-|

I'd also be wary of a site with an untrusted certificate as well.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

Segue
Regular
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 1:09 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by Segue » Tue, 17 Apr 2012 4:41 pm

The sad thing is that as an incumbent, you are always at a disadvantage in renewals. The landlord often has an unrealistic expectation, and they will think that you will be motivated to stay because its too much trouble to move.

I just tell them what I want to pay, and end up moving - often getting a better deal even during an up-market situation.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39564
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 17 Apr 2012 5:03 pm

Segue, I think most find that to be the case. Especially if on the first renewal as in that 1st year, you learn about all the mistakes you made negotiating the first time around. You also have a better feel for the market than coming here as a noob so you don't tend to listen to the story how it'll be gone by tomorrow. At least not taking it as the gospel, anyway. ;-)
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

durian123
Member
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 7:58 pm

Post by durian123 » Wed, 18 Apr 2012 6:14 pm

Something else that helps: don't sign a 1y contract!

FWIW my landlord is a wonderful guy.

thismyvoice
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 6:41 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by thismyvoice » Wed, 18 Apr 2012 7:02 pm

Get a property agent.

Some property agencies keep track of rental price transacted by their agents. Ask your agent to check and look over their shoulder.

Marc123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 2:32 am
Contact:

Post by Marc123 » Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:42 pm

May I ask you all, if you feel, after few experiences and landlords, that your are better in negotiating your rental in Singapore? Are you please with the price you pay for your current rental or do you still feel you are paying too much? This would also be true for your country of origin as well, unless you are owner there :)

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Property Talk, Housing & Rental”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest