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Singapore has world's lowest birth rate

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Re: Singapore has world's lowest birth rate

Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 27 Mar 2012 9:15 pm

carteki wrote: Another problem is the lack of "short term hotels". They're very popular in Japan (another very crowded place).


Oh, they're everywhere. You never see hotel 81, or Fragrance hotel? Lots of non-chain ones too.

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 27 Mar 2012 9:54 pm

revhappy wrote:Heard this from the locals, that not too long ago, may be the 70's the gahmen discouraged couples from having more than 2 kids. It seems there used to be an ad in the TV and a family with lots of kids grabbing buns and then the last child didn't have any left. Final tagline was 2 is enough! :roll:


Some aren't even opting for one!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:10 pm

I believe it was around 69 that the government came up with the stop at two policy that was the death knell for Singapore. They offered 5K to every woman who got sterilized after the 2nd child. Lots of women took them up on the offer cause of the money (they are still like that today - except for having babies) Now they offer 20K baby bonus but the new generation are all mememe so they aren't interested and the other generation is pi$$ed off cause they wanted more but listened to the gahmen.

edited to add link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... _Singapore

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Postby aster » Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:16 pm

revhappy wrote:Come on guys, I dont think living with parents is such a big factor with low birth rates. They would still have their own room, or atleast most of them, wont they?

The main reason is the east v/s the west thinking difference. The west have always been rich and the way they have become rich is by living like there is no tomorrow.

The east is in the transition phase from poor to getting richer and richer and richer and the way the east is getting rich is by accumulating wealth and not spending it off. You cannot accumulate wealth and enjoy the material benefits and also have children the same time.

Although Singapore has already gotten there, many developing countries in the east are in the same path.


I don't think it's about money, wealthy countries seem to have a lower birth rate than those on the other end of the spectrum.

Or actually it is, but in a different way. A very long time ago I read a Singaporean book titled "No Money, No Honey" and it basically compared the typical social outlook to that of prostitution. Apparently the main thing that many women look for in a man here is quite simply put... wealth. So the emphasis is not on finding the right partner and having a big family but finding a rich husband so that life can be grand and easy.

Neil Humphreys has a nice dig at this from the kiasuism perspective, where kids are steered towards success equated with future wealth and that leaves no room for any other measure of happiness. Don't do sports, don't give acting a try, don't think about anything else apart from a future job that carries big wages.

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:31 pm

I wonder that the ROM vs ob-gyne vs citizenship stats are. You know, dragon year.

:roll:

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Postby revhappy » Wed, 28 Mar 2012 9:52 am

aster wrote:
revhappy wrote:Come on guys, I dont think living with parents is such a big factor with low birth rates. They would still have their own room, or atleast most of them, wont they?

The main reason is the east v/s the west thinking difference. The west have always been rich and the way they have become rich is by living like there is no tomorrow.

The east is in the transition phase from poor to getting richer and richer and richer and the way the east is getting rich is by accumulating wealth and not spending it off. You cannot accumulate wealth and enjoy the material benefits and also have children the same time.

Although Singapore has already gotten there, many developing countries in the east are in the same path.


I don't think it's about money, wealthy countries seem to have a lower birth rate than those on the other end of the spectrum.

Or actually it is, but in a different way. A very long time ago I read a Singaporean book titled "No Money, No Honey" and it basically compared the typical social outlook to that of prostitution. Apparently the main thing that many women look for in a man here is quite simply put... wealth. So the emphasis is not on finding the right partner and having a big family but finding a rich husband so that life can be grand and easy.Neil Humphreys has a nice dig at this from the kiasuism perspective, where kids are steered towards success equated with future wealth and that leaves no room for any other measure of happiness. Don't do sports, don't give acting a try, don't think about anything else apart from a future job that carries big wages.


I agree that is also a big factor. The westerners look for the right partner. The conservative easterns(like India) believe in arranged marriages, which actually work brillantly, even though there are lots of cases of unhappy marriages and the wife/husband still putting up with each other just for the sake of it.

Singapore is neither here nor there. Its takes a lot of effort to get married here. You see how much makeup and stuff people here need to do to woo their partners. You find Indians not using deo or poor dressing sense is because they dont need to do it to woo partners. Their parents set up everything for them :).

Those Singaporeans that are introvert or not interesting are gone case, they ain't gonna find a partner so easily. Thats the reason you see so many singles even after 35 and really unhappy life and ofcourse no kids because Singaporeans are still not fully accustomed to having kids before marriage.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:27 am

Singapore is neither here nor there. Its takes a lot of effort to get married here. You see how much makeup and stuff people here need to do to woo their partners. You find Indians not using deo or poor dressing sense is because they dont need to do it to woo partners. Their parents set up everything for them :).


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From "Sex in Commercials" by George Carlin, 1972
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby teck21 » Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:31 am

Singaporeans, especially educated Singaporean Chinese are way too stressed out to have many kids, if any at all.

They get stressed out over things like their bosses being unhappy with their work,

whether they can get their children into this school or that school,

whether they can find enough expensive and useless enrichment programs to sign their children up for,

whether they can get leave to bring their families on a holiday somewhere during which they get even more stressed out having to rush from place to place to maximise the use of their 'holiday'time. Efficiency thingy, touted and believed in fervently here, yet hardly really practised.

whether they can leave the office by 7pm, and whether their promotion will be affected if they're spotted leaving at 6pm everyday

ad infinitum

Poor stress managers many Singaporeans are. They can't decide what to get stressed about (eg pick work or family to focus on, but everyone picks both, fail at both, and become terribly unhappy, and after a while, insane as frequently exhibited by their passive aggressive behaviour).

Manifested daily in the form of maid abuse (official statistics lie, not to mention screaming at one's muslim FDW and calling her a pig does not constitute abuse. Apparently, one needs to cause grievous bodily harm first), and numerous other types of anti-social behaviour.

Everyone feels their destiny is out of their own hands (it's not of course, for most at least). Where got time and mood to think about having more babies? Where got?

Monetary incentives won't work, because they very people who the government want more babies from earn enough (although they certainly don't think so!). Unless the incentive is of a quantum insanely large, which is of course, uneconomic.

Not to mention it will be abused, because it will encourage more children from groups the government doesn't want more of. I remember years ago, there was a scheme to help struggling families with young children.

Don't remember what it was, don't really care. What I do remember is that they didn't want to to be open to abuse by certain segments of society, so they made sure the scheme was open only to families with not more than 2 children. Pretty obvious who they were trying to exclude, no?

Until Singaporeans (again, especially the Chinese) learn to relax, simplify their lives and stop being so angry, and blaming anyone and everyone else for anything and everything wrong with their lives, nothing's going to change the declining birth rate.

Takes a mindset change. Unhappy people don't focus on making babies, they focus on how unhappy they are.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:38 am

^^^^

+1 Excellent synopsis and frankly, spot on I'd say.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:01 am

Image

#slowclap
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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 29 Mar 2012 3:38 am

To be fair, all aspect of socio development and racial intergration in SG was the brainchild of Harry. What he has seen and done during the 60s moulded his thinking going forward. As Chinese race was his main support base, he has to ensure that this support base does not erode into oblivion. At the same time he cannot ignore the Malay/Muslim . He needs the Indian race for him to pick their brains. So the rest were sidelines as a result.
Look at Loong he is doing the same old thing. His cabinet ministers is a replica of Harry's years ago.
Throwing freebies and rebates does not always work. The people will get use to it and they will want more. Nothing will satisfy them hence the memememe syndrome comes into effect.
If materialistic gain in SG is an upmost important, where do you have time to procreate ? Aint gonna happen!!
In conclusion, he tried to play GOD and screwed up the whole thing and the generations after him suffers.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ksl » Tue, 03 Apr 2012 9:14 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:To be fair, all aspect of socio development and racial intergration in SG was the brainchild of Harry. What he has seen and done during the 60s moulded his thinking going forward. As Chinese race was his main support base, he has to ensure that this support base does not erode into oblivion. At the same time he cannot ignore the Malay/Muslim . He needs the Indian race for him to pick their brains. So the rest were sidelines as a result.
Look at Loong he is doing the same old thing. His cabinet ministers is a replica of Harry's years ago.
Throwing freebies and rebates does not always work. The people will get use to it and they will want more. Nothing will satisfy them hence the memememe syndrome comes into effect.
If materialistic gain in SG is an upmost important, where do you have time to procreate ? Aint gonna happen!!
In conclusion, he tried to play GOD and screwed up the whole thing and the generations after him suffers.
Well said MS! Now you guys get out there and have a quick knee shake :P Then flip her upside down and count to 20 :cool:


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