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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:36 pm

JoannaNYC wrote:Her company is going to help and provide a lawyer. This really upsets me and makes me love America even more and hate leaving. I find the laws in Singapore to be archaic and prejudice.


You think these are archaic and prejudicial? Ha. You should visit neighboring Indonesia or Malaysia, where the laws are based on Islam. (actually, don't, that was a joke.)

I'm a counselor with a degree in Psychology. Would it be easy to find a job if worse comes to worse and I need to go that route?

No idea in that field.

Why is it okay or foreign couples to get the LTVP and not an actual citizen?! That to me seems ridiculous.

Wouldn't MOM see foreign couples as 'friends' as well? I don't get how that is different or easier.


Those foreigners have their governments telling Singapore that the couple has a legally recognized relationship. In this case, Singapore and the US, neither government will legally recognize the relationship. Plenty of foreign couples without the benefit of gay-friendly governments (and even some with) get their applications turned down.

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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:44 pm

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Last edited by JoannaNYC on Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:44 pm

I think lots of counties laws are archaic and prejudicial.

I'm not going to take 'no' for an answer. Im not paying for another four years of school. I have enough student loans at this point.

I can work I just haven't found a lot of resources for mental health professionals. Apparently, that is hidden along with homosexuality.

The US DOES allow same sex marriage in seven states. People work everyday here for human rights. We are moving for a job offer. There has to be a way around this. If her company is willing to sponsor a LTVP then I see no problem.

I am not ending my relationship over this old fashioned system.
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:48 pm

I'm not sure how much a lawyer will help you, but maybe no harm if you're not funding him.

The first same-sex dependent pass (to my knowledge) was issued to an Australian couple just two years ago. You need to understand it is still relatively very new legislation, and it is still not that clear how it is being applied.

As I said homosexuality is illegal for SGns, on a 'don't ask-no tell' basis. The change of policy for foreigners was to facilitate gay Foreign Talent heading to SG, who otherwise would not have made the transfer without their other half.

We've seen maybe a dozen cases discussed here before, though I don't recall anyone coming back with a definitive soup-to-nuts 'we did it, and this is how' recap.

I suspect the search functions here will reveal more useful anecdotal evidence than any lawyer is going to be aware of...

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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:54 pm

I would think Singapore would want their talent to return to their homecountry? Right? We have had no problems in America so obviously as flawed as our system can be its been perfectly fine.

I will fin a way to do this. You have no idea how determined I am.
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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 8:59 pm

JoannaNYC wrote:I think lots of counties laws are archaic and prejudicial.

I'm not going to take 'no' for an answer. Im not paying for another four years of school. I have enough student loans at this point.

I can work I just haven't found a lot of resources for mental health professionals. Apparently, that is hidden along with homosexuality.

The US DOES allow same sex marriage in seven states. People work everyday here for human rights. We are moving for a job offer. There has to be a way around this. If her company is willing to sponsor a LTVP then I see no problem.

I am not ending my relationship over this old fashioned system.
.


As JR mentioned, those who have found ways around it haven't bothered to come back and post about it to help others once their own problem was solved. You'd be helping a lot of future people if you keep everyone up to date on anything you learn, especially if successful.

Why don't you try Googling up some gay-establishments in Singapore, say cafes or whatever, and just emailing them for any advice they may have? 40% of Singapore is foreigners, so I can't imagine you're the first Singapore<->Foreigner couple that has had this issue.

Thinking outside your field, maybe consider a job teaching English? While English is taught in the local schools, there is still a lot of demand for English tutoring, and quite a few of those 40% foreigners don't know English. (hell, a lot of locals dont know it well :P) I know the British Council hires foreigners for English, and pays rather well.

JoannaNYC wrote: You have no idea how determined I am.


Oh, I have an idea. :P Which is why you may find we're being slightly more helpful than normal. Most posters are too lazy to try and just want their solutions handed to them!

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 9:03 pm

Joanna,

I'm sure I speak for many here when I say that I sympathise with your situation and everyone who has posted has done so with a sincere wish to try to help. It is a tricky situation (Catch 22 in some ways) for the reasons already explained above, and unfortunately I don't have any further information than has already been provided. Obviously we don't make the rules, we just try to help explain them (in as far as we understand them ourselves).

MS (Mad Scientist) is one of the gurus here for these kinds of matters and he might possibly have a suggestion or further advice.

Good luck to you and I hope you and your partner do manage to find a way to move here together. For the sake of any others who may follow in your footsteps later on, it would be good if you could keep this thread updated as your investigations proceed.
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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 9:09 pm

I would of course, post any solutions I find.

I would love to teach, I thought you needed a teaching certification? I don't have that just studied Child Development.

I also plan when we are in Singapore and dealing with all these issues to write about my experience and when I'm safety back in the US pursue publishing. This is an unfair situation and it's not openly talked about. That has to change.
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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 9:13 pm

I did look into several LGBT agencies. Is Oogahchaga good?K
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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 9:17 pm

JoannaNYC wrote:I would love to teach, I thought you needed a teaching certification? I don't have that just studied Child Development.


British Council isn't a school, it's their embassy, and they just run English classes (amongst saving the Queen and other things). Besides your salary, the "prestige" of the organization applying for your work permit is also factored in. The British Council likely carries a lot of weight ;) The person I know definitely doesn't have a teaching degree there. Only official schools probably require those.

Singapore is loaded with hundeds "tuition" centers, that offer tutoring. You could also pursue teaching English at one of those, but they probably wouldn't pay as well.

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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 9:19 pm

I would be doing it for the visa. The pay is a non-issue. Thank you! I will research that!
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:16 pm

I can tell you one that that is almost a certain. Do NOT engage a lawyer. ICA and MOM both do not like lawyers. Additionally, most lawyers will not engage a case regarding immigration to Singapore for the simple reason that ICA and MOM make their own rules and there nothing a lawyer can do about it. So, disregard my advice if you want. I made the mistake when I applied for PR the first time. It took another three years to get it. Without a lawyer. Years later, the Officer who gave me my PR told me that's why it was rejected the first time. I used one only because I wanted to make sure I'd dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's. :-( If/when MS sees this I'm sure he will concur as well.

Oh, determined is good. One of two things will happen. You will get in or you will get up their noses and be thrown out and banned. Either way, problem solved. :-|

Or you could get married in the states that are legal and hope for the best. Like has been already pointed out numerous times already, it's an area we actually don't have any anecdotal evidence for, what with one of the "partners" being an overseas Singaporean citizen.

Personally, I see no reason why the government here would allow it as it serves no purpose in trying to get a gay Singaporean back to Singapore. What benefit could it be to Singapore? She's not likely to produce male children is she? Or any children in a country of declining birthrates. In fact mores the reason to NOT allow it as it take up more space without any chance of offspring. Crude, but just trying to think like the gahmen here would think. Not trying to ruffle an feathers but these would be the most obvious reasons I could think of. In this can it's not foreign talent that they are trying to sweeten the pot to ensure they come. But a citizen returning and bringing something that the government doesn't want to allow in the first place. This could open up a whole can of these things:

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:42 pm

I suspect you are right SMS, a lawyer is going to be very cautious about doing anything in this case. They might give opinion, but there's no chance they'll be 'fighting' anything.

That's a reflection of how sensitive the issue is, and also how the gahmen are inclined to crush anyone who rocks the boat...





p.s. Hey you don't get to be in power for 50 years by being nice eh!

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Postby JoannaNYC » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:47 pm

Zz
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:01 pm

I see sour grapes and a bad ending. Singapore likes money but you don't have enough money to offset the opening of certain floodgates that would be sure to happen. Imagine for one moment, if the let a Singapore gay bring back a 'foreign' partner, in a society where it's just not condoned, how many local gays would go and find 'partners' in other countries and try to bring them back to Singapore. It wouldn't make much sense for the government to allow that precedence that would obviously blow up in their faces. Good luck. Your gonna need it. That and a bloody miracle.


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