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Issues with NS and career path? (Nursing) Really difficult

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Issues with NS and career path? (Nursing) Really difficult

Postby mrbakchormee » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 6:40 pm

Hey everybody!

(For those who want to fast-forward straight to the question, I highlighted it in bold further down. This is a moderately under-the-table question i'm asking so...just give me the low-down)


BACKSTORY:

So, I want to be a nurse, and yes I AM a male.
I know it's not exactly a popular choice for a male but it's always been my calling but nvm about that.

I'm 16 yrs old now and i'm a Singapore Citizen, but was born in Msia.
My parents took up the citizenship for me when they migrated and me as a minor when I was about 3, and I got my pink I.C last year, and have had the EZ-Link card etc.

Btw, we are the only family members of our clan here and so there is not a lot to "say goodbye" to and them migrating with me later is no hassle.

I have stayed and studied at schools here till I dropped out of school as soon as I read about all this "socio-economic benefits" in relation to N.S but of course, far too late. (Just an F.Y.I, I never knew N.S was compulsory, I thought it was optional like in Malaysia)

Now, I have pals waiting for me in Australia and my academics are quite good.
I had studied very hard in school thinking I would be able to quickly get out there, get my diploma in pharmacy/nursing and eventually a bachelor's degree in nursing and become a nurse clinician.

However, it seems like many of my doors will close if I go only AFTER N.S, and i've been saving money for the trip there and accomodations and i've honestly been planning like a madman to get everything sorted out now there's just this one last thing- N.S.


I've been to ICA, and MINDEF, and IDP (A group specializing in migration students), and all of them have seemed to point me toward N.S 'OR ELSE'
but one area is left blank, and

this is where my question comes in:

Please note,

1) All my decisions listed below are tentative and pending your knowledgeable answers :)

2) I, along with my girlfriend whom is following me, do NOT intend to ever travel back to Singapore at all, and we are totally ready to live with the consequences as far as the Singapore borders are concerned.


I intend to avoid the whole mess of N.S altogether, but i'm totally uncertain how.

Won't they send letters for me to register and such? I hear they start sending letters as early as 16 1/2 years old.

How do I avoid dealing with them and leave without paying a bond?


My parents are living here, but are not in HDB flats nor in regular day jobs. They are not very rich either, and I would hate any serious consequences such as jail-time to befall them.
I WILL be doing this totally financially independently though my mother DOES intend to follow me on my first trip to Australia.

What can they expect if I just pack up and leave?

Will they be jailed or used as a threat to force me back?

Will they be forced to pay the huge $75,000 when their reserves are TOTALLY dry?


I intend to make the move with my girlfriend when i'm 20, after completing my Diploma in Nursing at a polytechnic here.

Will she face any issues if we later get married and take up my surname and want to re-enter Singapore?

And this question is probably the biggest of all:

Will I get stopped at the airport on my departure?
And will I get extradited back into Singapore and arrested?



I don't intend to ever come back and am fully aware of the whole story of not being able to ever even come back to visit.
I will work hard and bring my parents over as soon as I can, and they are in good health, only in their late 40s, and they have my capable elder brother to take care of them.
I love them very dearly and they're really what's making me think so hard about this, aside from my fear of being stopped and caught at the airport upon my departure.

Now it's just me, myself and I.
It's not that i'm selfish..and I really hope that you guys can help me, (i've heard a guy on here, Mad Scientist, specializes in such cases?)

I've done part-time work for a lot of my teenage life to earn my own pocket money and settle any smaller bills, and now is about me expanding my own life and doing something to secure my future.

Thanks for any and all of your help!!!

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 7:27 pm

From other posts in regards to NS. Can't comment on the bond for your schooling. I imagine if it has your parents name attached, you'll be f-ing them over.

For NS:

- The penalties will only affect you. Not your parents or Gf/Wife.
- They will not extradite you.
- You may or may not be arrested at the airport, but I wouldn't risk it if you chose this path.

That said, why do you think "doors will close" after NS? It's at most two years, and will likely open doors in careers. I see this spouted many times by locals who are young or in school or who don't have jobs yet, but they usually don't have jobs for OTHER reasons. Such as not being qualified. I know many people in very professional careers who have served their NS time, here and in the West (where it is generally voluntary.) Nearly everyone I know who is moderately successful in life thinks it was a good to great experience, and wouldn't go back and not serve. The people who are against it for reasons other than being pacifists/having strong beliefs tend to be the types who are slackers and wouldn't have good hopes anyway.

This is all my opinion, but I strongly suggest you reconsider such a drastic decision which will negatively impact your life. We were all teenagers once, and we all thought we were extremely smart and could make decisions at that time and live with the consequences. But most of us who are older now are thankful as hell we DIDN'T do anything rash like that.

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Re: Issues with NS and career path? (Nursing) Really difficu

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 7:54 pm

mrbakchormee wrote:Hey everybody!

(For those who want to fast-forward straight to the question, I highlighted it in bold further down. This is a moderately under-the-table question i'm asking so...just give me the low-down)


BACKSTORY:

So, I want to be a nurse, and yes I AM a male.
I know it's not exactly a popular choice for a male but it's always been my calling but nvm about that.

I'm 16 yrs old now and i'm a Singapore Citizen, but was born in Msia.
My parents took up the citizenship for me when they migrated and me as a minor when I was about 3, and I got my pink I.C last year, and have had the EZ-Link card etc.

Btw, we are the only family members of our clan here and so there is not a lot to "say goodbye" to and them migrating with me later is no hassle.

I have stayed and studied at schools here till I dropped out of school as soon as I read about all this "socio-economic benefits" in relation to N.S but of course, far too late. (Just an F.Y.I, I never knew N.S was compulsory, I thought it was optional like in Malaysia)

Now, I have pals waiting for me in Australia and my academics are quite good.
I had studied very hard in school thinking I would be able to quickly get out there, get my diploma in pharmacy/nursing and eventually a bachelor's degree in nursing and become a nurse clinician.

However, it seems like many of my doors will close if I go only AFTER N.S, and i've been saving money for the trip there and accomodations and i've honestly been planning like a madman to get everything sorted out now there's just this one last thing- N.S.


I've been to ICA, and MINDEF, and IDP (A group specializing in migration students), and all of them have seemed to point me toward N.S 'OR ELSE'
but one area is left blank, and

this is where my question comes in:

Please note,

1) All my decisions listed below are tentative and pending your knowledgeable answers :)

2) I, along with my girlfriend whom is following me, do NOT intend to ever travel back to Singapore at all, and we are totally ready to live with the consequences as far as the Singapore borders are concerned.


I intend to avoid the whole mess of N.S altogether, but i'm totally uncertain how.

Won't they send letters for me to register and such? I hear they start sending letters as early as 16 1/2 years old. [b]Correct

How do I avoid dealing with them and leave without paying a bond?[/b]

You cannot.Also, that still will not absolve you from doing NS if caught in Singapore anytime in the future.

My parents are living here, but are not in HDB flats nor in regular day jobs. They are not very rich either, and I would hate any serious consequences such as jail-time to befall them.
I WILL be doing this totally financially independently though my mother DOES intend to follow me on my first trip to Australia.

What can they expect if I just pack up and leave?

[b]Your parents? They will be hounded unmercifully by MINDEF.


Will they be jailed or used as a threat to force me back?

Definitely. See answer above.

Will they be forced to pay the huge $75,000 when their reserves are TOTALLY dry?[/b]

If you could do it legally, yes, they will probably be made a bankrupt should you not return. Problem is if you try that, then CMPB will know what you are up to and nix it from the start. For the record, CMPB will NOT give a deferment for tertiary education overseas.


I intend to make the move with my girlfriend when i'm 20, after completing my Diploma in Nursing at a polytechnic here.

There is a very good possibility that you will not even get into the Poly until after you do your NS. This especially so, if they check an see you are a naturalized citizen and not locally born.


Will she face any issues if we later get married and take up my surname and want to re-enter Singapore?

Doubtfully, she's not the one breaking the law. You are.

And this question is probably the biggest of all:

Will I get stopped at the airport on my departure?

[b]Doubtful, but hopefully, yes.


And will I get extradited back into Singapore and arrested?[/b]

Not at this time, but in the future? Anybody's guess. Hopefully though.


I don't intend to ever come back and am fully aware of the whole story of not being able to ever even come back to visit.
I will work hard and bring my parents over as soon as I can, and they are in good health, only in their late 40s, and they have my capable elder brother to take care of them.

Their health will deteriorate rapidly once MINDEF starts hassling them.

I love them very dearly and they're really what's making me think so hard about this, aside from my fear of being stopped and caught at the airport upon my departure.

You obviously don't love them that much, to even think about putting them through the ordeal they are going to have to suffer for your petulant immaturity.

Now it's just me, myself and I.
It's not that i'm selfish..and I really hope that you guys can help me, (i've heard a guy on here, Mad Scientist, specializes in such cases?)

I've done part-time work for a lot of my teenage life to earn my own pocket money and settle any smaller bills, and now is about me expanding my own life and doing something to secure my future.


Thanks for any and all of your help!!!



Mad Scientist will not tell you how to do anything that is illegal. I can vouch for that. We don't do that here. We can & will only assist you to do this legally. As you are already 16, you are already screwed legally so there isn't anything MS can do to help you.

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Re: Issues with NS and career path? (Nursing) Really difficu

Postby mrbakchormee » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:36 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
mrbakchormee wrote:Hey everybody!

(For those who want to fast-forward straight to the question, I highlighted it in bold further down. This is a moderately under-the-table question i'm asking so...just give me the low-down)


BACKSTORY:

So, I want to be a nurse, and yes I AM a male.
I know it's not exactly a popular choice for a male but it's always been my calling but nvm about that.

I'm 16 yrs old now and i'm a Singapore Citizen, but was born in Msia.
My parents took up the citizenship for me when they migrated and me as a minor when I was about 3, and I got my pink I.C last year, and have had the EZ-Link card etc.

Btw, we are the only family members of our clan here and so there is not a lot to "say goodbye" to and them migrating with me later is no hassle.

I have stayed and studied at schools here till I dropped out of school as soon as I read about all this "socio-economic benefits" in relation to N.S but of course, far too late. (Just an F.Y.I, I never knew N.S was compulsory, I thought it was optional like in Malaysia)

Now, I have pals waiting for me in Australia and my academics are quite good.
I had studied very hard in school thinking I would be able to quickly get out there, get my diploma in pharmacy/nursing and eventually a bachelor's degree in nursing and become a nurse clinician.

However, it seems like many of my doors will close if I go only AFTER N.S, and i've been saving money for the trip there and accomodations and i've honestly been planning like a madman to get everything sorted out now there's just this one last thing- N.S.


I've been to ICA, and MINDEF, and IDP (A group specializing in migration students), and all of them have seemed to point me toward N.S 'OR ELSE'
but one area is left blank, and

this is where my question comes in:

Please note,

1) All my decisions listed below are tentative and pending your knowledgeable answers :)

2) I, along with my girlfriend whom is following me, do NOT intend to ever travel back to Singapore at all, and we are totally ready to live with the consequences as far as the Singapore borders are concerned.


I intend to avoid the whole mess of N.S altogether, but i'm totally uncertain how.

Won't they send letters for me to register and such? I hear they start sending letters as early as 16 1/2 years old. [b]Correct

How do I avoid dealing with them and leave without paying a bond?[/b]

You cannot.Also, that still will not absolve you from doing NS if caught in Singapore anytime in the future.

My parents are living here, but are not in HDB flats nor in regular day jobs. They are not very rich either, and I would hate any serious consequences such as jail-time to befall them.
I WILL be doing this totally financially independently though my mother DOES intend to follow me on my first trip to Australia.

What can they expect if I just pack up and leave?

[b]Your parents? They will be hounded unmercifully by MINDEF.


Will they be jailed or used as a threat to force me back?

Definitely. See answer above.

Will they be forced to pay the huge $75,000 when their reserves are TOTALLY dry?[/b]

If you could do it legally, yes, they will probably be made a bankrupt should you not return. Problem is if you try that, then CMPB will know what you are up to and nix it from the start. For the record, CMPB will NOT give a deferment for tertiary education overseas.


I intend to make the move with my girlfriend when i'm 20, after completing my Diploma in Nursing at a polytechnic here.

There is a very good possibility that you will not even get into the Poly until after you do your NS. This especially so, if they check an see you are a naturalized citizen and not locally born.


Will she face any issues if we later get married and take up my surname and want to re-enter Singapore?

Doubtfully, she's not the one breaking the law. You are.

And this question is probably the biggest of all:

Will I get stopped at the airport on my departure?

[b]Doubtful, but hopefully, yes.


And will I get extradited back into Singapore and arrested?[/b]

Not at this time, but in the future? Anybody's guess. Hopefully though.


I don't intend to ever come back and am fully aware of the whole story of not being able to ever even come back to visit.
I will work hard and bring my parents over as soon as I can, and they are in good health, only in their late 40s, and they have my capable elder brother to take care of them.

Their health will deteriorate rapidly once MINDEF starts hassling them.

I love them very dearly and they're really what's making me think so hard about this, aside from my fear of being stopped and caught at the airport upon my departure.

You obviously don't love them that much, to even think about putting them through the ordeal they are going to have to suffer for your petulant immaturity.

Now it's just me, myself and I.
It's not that i'm selfish..and I really hope that you guys can help me, (i've heard a guy on here, Mad Scientist, specializes in such cases?)

I've done part-time work for a lot of my teenage life to earn my own pocket money and settle any smaller bills, and now is about me expanding my own life and doing something to secure my future.


Thanks for any and all of your help!!!



Mad Scientist will not tell you how to do anything that is illegal. I can vouch for that. We don't do that here. We can & will only assist you to do this legally. As you are already 16, you are already screwed legally so there isn't anything MS can do to help you.


Thanks for your prompt reply.

Alright well, as far as this all goes, now i'm starting to feel pangs of confusion.
I keep hearing of people and have heard from some friends overseas who left Singapore around their Poly graduation or before, took up another citizenship, then renounced theirs in their embassy overseas, then despite not being able to come back, that was end of the road!

I just want to get clarity on this whole thing because MINDEF and ICA were rather contradictory and i'm still as you can see, very uncertain.

Please advise :shock:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:47 pm

Laws are in a constant state of flux. While you wouldn't get extradited today. who's to say what agreements that Singapore will make with Australia in years to come if it may be beneficial to both parties? You think a bunch of deserters are going to stop them? Australia would give you up in a minute. Now that all the main databases are connected at ICA, more and more are going to get caught out by some silly little oversight and then the ball game is over. A time is coming that they will have everything on you before you even land, even if you are a transit passenger. It's only a matter of time. They are already catching undesirables like prostitutes that are returning to Singapore using new passports and getting caught with optical recognition software (which comes from Australia from what I'm told).

Gamble if you want. If you lose you will have the rest of your life to pay for it. If you win, you will have the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. Your choice.

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Postby mrbakchormee » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 12:00 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Laws are in a constant state of flux. While you wouldn't get extradited today. who's to say what agreements that Singapore will make with Australia in years to come if it may be beneficial to both parties? You think a bunch of deserters are going to stop them? Australia would give you up in a minute. Now that all the main databases are connected at ICA, more and more are going to get caught out by some silly little oversight and then the ball game is over. A time is coming that they will have everything on you before you even land, even if you are a transit passenger. It's only a matter of time. They are already catching undesirables like prostitutes that are returning to Singapore using new passports and getting caught with optical recognition software (which comes from Australia from what I'm told).

Gamble if you want. If you lose you will have the rest of your life to pay for it. If you win, you will have the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. Your choice.



I like that little phrase you use at the end, it's very apt, haha.

Well...I guess it just comes down to a bit of a snag, yknow?
I read of all like, the 3 Norwegian brothers & Melvyn Tan and I can't help but wonder..
I've always felt I would enjoy life more overseas (which is why I came to SGexpats originally to browse, wanted to meet foreign friends),
and I wouldn't miss Singapore per se.

I know that even 35 years down the line, I decide "oh what a bright day it is! Let me fly to Country A!" and it so happens to have a stop-over in Singapore I would be deep-fried, but i'm ready to sit on this for awhile and think about it at the least.

I guess right now, SMS, my main concern is that I have my O levels this year, and a few interviews with representatives from colleges overseas in the coming weeks, and like I read before "the sticky issue is when the kids are 18 and they have so many decisions to make".

I know many people just suck it up and serve their NS because of this and that but ultimately, I wouldn't want to call Singapore my homeland (no offense!), and I know many of the consequences now like,

1) My family (wife or kids) may some day be posted to work here or want to travel here and I would not be able to enter with them.

2) I would not be able to travel involving Singapore even in transit for whatever reason, even sob-stories.

3) I face the risk of a possible future extradition treaty that would lock me out of more countries, even one which I have come to call my new home, in your given example Australia.

4) If I DO mess up, I will be facing a fine, jail time, and have to serve N.S anyway and possibly even face a few years ban afterward!


But aside from all that..you're right, this is only a forum of collective knowledge, at the end of the day it's my hand that's holding the passport at that checkpoint, and to go or not is my choice to make and live with..

I will definitely reflect on this further and make an even more informative choice, thanks.

In light of this, I would like to enquire how National Service is like?

I would not be so against it if I could just go in and be a medic, and I hear your education plays a big part in your vocation.
So, if I have a good educational history as a nurse, how would it play out?

I hear of friends of friends who are currently serving and they talk about "Tekong" and sleepless nights and "being treated like shit", yet I see camps all over the country!
But all any of them talk about is being in "Tekong"!

I guess it just concerns me that my time would be spent doing drills and being yelled at to clean and assemble my rifle rather than treating wounds, riding in the back of an ambulance around Singapore as part of an emergency response unit.
Not a day goes by now that I don't wonder about my N.S future, at such a juncture with my dreams and aspirations.

I know I share a very common pickle and it gets this way for almost everybody but unlike some (I emphasize 'some') of the "almost everybody", I DO know where I want to go, what I want to work as and who I want to become, and in all my planning Singapore just doesn't pop up on the list at all..there's certainly a shortage in nurses worldwide, and only very special reasons would involve Singapore but nothing would be to be set in stone, and it upsets me that even then, I still have such obligations to the country!.. :???:

I'm sure you understand..as do many, but aaagh!..

Thanks again :-|

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 12:34 am

Well, I've been to Tekong. I wish I had that kind of BMT when I was in the military way back when. Big innerspring mattresses instead of the cotton ticking roll up mattresses of yore. The food was good as well.

What was I doing over there? May son went into NS in May. He's got dual citizenship but he as been here his whole life, He did all his schooling in local schools, he realizes that he owes this country something for the safety and good living conditions he's had growing up here. Of course, he was brought up differently apparently, insomuch as he believes in quid pro quo, e.g., if you get, you give back. He did well in BTM and he's been posted to the Navy.

Oh, if you are into local alternative indie bands here, you ought to have a listen to Caracal. Pretty good group. They opened for the American Band Underoath last night at I believe Ngee Ann Poly Clubhouse. Why am I bringing it up? The lead singer is my son.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 1:07 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Oh, if you are into local alternative indie bands here, you ought to have a listen to Caracal. Pretty good group. They opened for the American Band Underoath last night at I believe Ngee Ann Poly Clubhouse. Why am I bringing it up? The lead singer is my son.



Caracal 'kin rock! :cool:


Try this for size...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkw6vWd2Aec
Caracal [Bear. Shark. Wolf] - 05 Cheers To Love


p.s. Bunter take note, this is leagues ahead of the inverted pyramid of piffle that you linked earlier on the Music topic lol...

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 8:49 am

mrbakchormee wrote:2) I would not be able to travel involving Singapore even in transit for whatever reason, even sob-stories.

Add to this, if your future employer or even school will send you anywhere with a transit via Singapore you may have a lot of fun to explain your situation. May end up in firing or expelling you and who knows if not kicking out from your new home country.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 8:56 am

x9200 wrote:
mrbakchormee wrote:2) I would not be able to travel involving Singapore even in transit for whatever reason, even sob-stories.

Add to this, if your future employer or even school will send you anywhere with a transit via Singapore you may have a lot of fun to explain your situation. May end up in firing or expelling you and who knows if not kicking out from your new home country.


And don't forget the ubiquitous background checks most real jobs require you to under-go now before being hired. When the company sees you're from Singapore, you don't think they might run a background check in your home country? This will come up as a huge flag, as you're essentially a felon on the run.

Also, you ever plan to move somewhere besides Australia? (Of course not, you're 16! you have your whole life planned!!) Well, many countries require police background checks from every country you've ever lived in in order to get an immigration visa. The US definitely requires this. You think you can hide that you spent the first 16-20 years of your life in Singapore? Or hide that you defaulted on NS?

Singapore isn't some two-bit dictatorship that is seen as brutally repressing its citizens (wait, let's ignore that thought for a second :D), it is friendly and well integrated on the world stage. You'll elicit no sympathy from any of its friends. Which as you can see by the visa waivers it has with most of the world, is pretty extensive.

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:01 am

mrbakchormee wrote:In light of this, I would like to enquire how National Service is like?

I would not be so against it if I could just go in and be a medic, and I hear your education plays a big part in your vocation.
So, if I have a good educational history as a nurse, how would it play out?

I hear of friends of friends who are currently serving and they talk about "Tekong" and sleepless nights and "being treated like shit", yet I see camps all over the country!
But all any of them talk about is being in "Tekong"!

I guess it just concerns me that my time would be spent doing drills and being yelled at to clean and assemble my rifle rather than treating wounds, riding in the back of an ambulance around Singapore as part of an emergency response unit.
Not a day goes by now that I don't wonder about my N.S future, at such a juncture with my dreams and aspirations.


Hey guys, do answer this bit. I'm also curious about this as well (knowing that I will never experience it at hand) :)

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:11 am

Being 'yelled at' and 'treated like shit' in basic training. Well, who'd have thought lol? That even happens in the sanitised Hollywood films.

A more mature participant would understand the necessary dynamics and psychology at work, and adjust to roll with it.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:25 am

No wonder SG has to import FT who can handle some grind and adversity. Not like these locals who graduate and think that's their life-entitlement to the 5C's sorted out and waiting on a plate.

[hey, it's Friday :P]

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:27 am

Lynx,

That may well be, if his friends are all big girls blouses or gay, but my son finds it is quite okay. Then again, maybe he's made of better stuff. After all, he ALWAYS had to carry his own load. We didn't use maids and mommy didn't do it either. :cool:

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:30 am

I don't get it.... why are so many SGn youths paranoid about people being 'mean to them'... i.e. real life.

Perhaps because mummy has always protected them from that?
Last edited by JR8 on Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.


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