PR (not Sing citizen) leaving - and NS situation

[mothman]

Not another NS question!

OK so I am an Australian citizen (as is my wife) and a Singapore PR since 2002. My kids are are also PR (for better or worse) ages 13 and 11 - both boys. I understand their NS liabilities. For what it is worth, both kids educated at International Schools during their stay in Singapore.

However, my situation here has changed recently and there is a possibility I may return to Australia with my family permanantly - for family reasons (elderly parents) plus work reasons. My intention, if we go back permanantly would be to cancel PR for the entire family - I mean what would be the point in keeping it unless I have an intention of returning here to stay. Surely when we are no longer living here permanantly - we cannot keep permanant residency?

My questions relating to NS:

1. I understand the above actions will/may negatively affect my son's chances of coming back to Singapore and need to understand the extent of this. In practical reality, if he goes on and becomes an accomplished professional working for a big international would the fact that he had cancelled his PR at 13 or 14 (for family reasons) negatively affect his chances of working here again?

2. One of my concerns is not the original NS 1/12yr obligation, but the ongoing training requirements. How does this work, if he undertakes his original NS obligations, then cancels his PR (because he is working and living overseas) will he have opportunity to work here again should he choose? I assume he would be considered a better person for having done his original training.

3. Final question, if (as a PR) you perform your original NS obligation but then are living overseas full time (still keeping your PR if you can) are you required to return to Singapore on a yearly or bi yearly basis to perform your additional training?

Just trying to clarify everything in my mind.

Thanks in advance.

[Mad Scientist]

Not another NS question!

OK so I am an Australian citizen (as is my wife) and a Singapore PR since 2002. My kids are are also PR (for better or worse) ages 13 and 11 - both boys. I understand their NS liabilities. For what it is worth, both kids educated at International Schools during their stay in Singapore.

Does not makes a diff

However, my situation here has changed recently and there is a possibility I may return to Australia with my family permanantly - for family reasons (elderly parents) plus work reasons. My intention, if we go back permanantly would be to cancel PR for the entire family - I mean what would be the point in keeping it unless I have an intention of returning here to stay. Surely when we are no longer living here permanantly - we cannot keep permanant residency?

My questions relating to NS:

1. I understand the above actions will/may negatively affect my son's chances of coming back to Singapore and need to understand the extent of this. In practical reality, if he goes on and becomes an accomplished professional working for a big international would the fact that he had cancelled his PR at 13 or 14 (for family reasons) negatively affect his chances of working here again?

EP yes, PR maybe

2. One of my concerns is not the original NS 1/12yr obligation, but the ongoing training requirements. How does this work, if he undertakes his original NS obligations, then cancels his PR (because he is working and living overseas) will he have opportunity to work here again should he choose? I assume he would be considered a better person for having done his original training.

Yes, oh YES !! in fact BIG Yes !!

3. Final question, if (as a PR) you perform your original NS obligation but then are living overseas full time (still keeping your PR if you can) are you required to return to Singapore on a yearly or bi yearly basis to perform your additional training?

Your PR is a five year basis. Out of this before your REP expires you must be able to proof of income tax three year prior renewal in SG

Just trying to clarify everything in my mind.

Thanks in advance.

[teck21]

3. Final question, if (as a PR) you perform your original NS obligation but then are living overseas full time (still keeping your PR if you can) are you required to return to Singapore on a yearly or bi yearly basis to perform your additional training?

I think MS may have misunderstood this part. If your children are legally residing and working overseas, and MINDEF is kept informed, they will not be required to return to Singapore for their annual/b-annual/semi-annual (it varies from individual to individual) NS liability.

The key is to not avoid the full-time NSF liability (ie the initial conscription part).

You are right, that 1.5years is nothing in the grander scheme of things. It may make them better (or not). They will likely make some friends to keep for life.

Nothing binds people closer than eating sh*t together, metaphorically speaking.

Then again, to keep their PR, MS is absolutely right, in which case they will definitely be liable for their 'reservist' (this term is no longer used officially) training stints.

So it's probably something for you to consider.

[mothman]

Thanks for the replies. More understanding comes with each one!

I can certainly see the benefits in the full time NS in terms of developing character, friendships etc.

But here's the rub - if I return to Australia, basically permanantly (returning there for family reasons and cannot see myself returning...) can you legally even retain PR in Singapore if you are not resident - I mean it is permanant resident of Singapore? I guess there is some sort of timetable for when you need to legally relinquish your PR? Its not like I cannot return to Australia and help out my elderly parents there.

So damned if you do and damned if you don't, how can a kid who is then not PR (because he cannot be - legally) do NS (do foreign nationals do NS)....and yet if he doesn't, he recieves a black mark against his name.

It a bit like golf - for something that is so black and white there are still many shades of grey...

[mothman]

To keep the issues seperate - addressing the PR question first.

If my family leaves Singapore for Australia and then reside there permanantly (or lets say 10 years - who knows what happens after that long), do we have to give up our PR before leaving and/or can we retain the PR while living in Australia.

At which stage does the PR status lapse or at what stage would we be asked to either return to Singapore or give it up?

[carteki]

You PR actually never lapses unless you give it up. It is just that your REP is renewable every 5 years and without this you cannot stay in Singapore past the 90 days of the visit visa (and it'll raise flags if you want to 'visit' here too).

Will your REP be renewed after 5 years away? Doubt it, but I've seen it happen. If you give up your PR will you get it back? It has happened, but once again there are going to be questions asked (and you'll have to back pay ALL your cpf contributions as if you'd never left)

[mothman]

Cheers Carteki - thanks for the answer. All is slowly becoming clearer....

[Mad Scientist]

To keep the issues seperate - addressing the PR question first.

If my family leaves Singapore for Australia and then reside there permanantly (or lets say 10 years - who knows what happens after that long), do we have to give up our PR before leaving and/or can we retain the PR while living in Australia.

At which stage does the PR status lapse or at what stage would we be asked to either return to Singapore or give it up?

Three years of income tax prior renewal of REP needs to be provided.

On your earlier post, once you take PR under PTS scheme, your child is considered a 2nd Gen PR. It is clearly stated the ifs and ifs not of the guideline.
It is not a sure thing that your son can regain PR but to work here is highly possible if his expertise is niche and serving NS is seen as contributing the defence of SG which will put him a good stead with MOM