Employment contract talks, housing allowance vs. PR

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Hidy Ho
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Post by Hidy Ho » Wed, 15 Feb 2012 6:20 pm

zzm9980 wrote: but but but i thought the path was to get a "MASTERS" from a "world reknown university" and then work at a "very famous bank"? :???:
I can get u anything degree from any university you want, next time I'm in Bangkok!!! :shock:


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Post by x9200 » Wed, 15 Feb 2012 8:07 pm

ecureilx wrote:x9200: I asked my HR Manager today, at the weekly breakfast chat .. and casually she said that if the employee is worth it, they will consider retaining the Housing allowance after PR .. or else, it is taken off, and so does the CPF - which for our company, is full contribution, once CPF board approves (about 2 months max, from the date PR is awarded) and so is the matching CPF contribution, by employer, also in Full ! No sliding scale.

atleast For hospitals, for housing allowances, they have a sliding scale.

Upon PR and until the end of the first year of PR, 25% minus off housing allowance

second year, 50% less

third year onwards, none ...

So, yes, different companies have different policies ...
Yep, and roughly we have all the above together inclusive of this sliding scale" and dependence on many many factors. The policy of the whole institution is pretty unified and standardized but for individual cases there is always a space for negotiations.

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Post by revhappy » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:32 am

zzm9980 wrote:Slightly off topic, but what do most companies do for Employer-CPF contributions before one is a PR? Obviously this varies by company, but I'm just curious the generalities of them.

My company for example pays me the full amount monthly. Another "very famous bank" I know of puts the amount into some type of investment account for the employee, and gives it to them when they leave.

Do most companies do something like this? Are we just the lucky ones?
I work for that very famous bank :) I know another bank that also does this. ;). And you are right. We have a choice of 8/9 funds managed by RCM and JF Provident with fund choices in both fixed income and equity flavors denominated in HKD and we will get it once we quit. The moment we convert to PR the contributions will switch to the regular CPF.

Some of the other large banks dont give the employers part of the CPF when you are on EP and its in these companies that people are desperate to become PR.

But the majority of IT contracting companies get people on EP and pay them a fix amount of eg. 5k and when the convert to PR, both the employers and employees contribution come from that same 5k. So after 3 years of the scaling contribution is over the employees take home becomes 3.2k. All this is clearly mentioned in the offer letter.

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Post by zzm9980 » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:00 pm

revhappy wrote: But the majority of IT contracting companies get people on EP and pay them a fix amount of eg. 5k and when the convert to PR, both the employers and employees contribution come from that same 5k. So after 3 years of the scaling contribution is over the employees take home becomes 3.2k. All this is clearly mentioned in the offer letter.
Wow, is *that* legal? :shock: :???: I guess I should be happy with the situation at my current employer!

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Post by ecureilx » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:03 pm

zzm9980 wrote: Wow, is *that* legal? :shock: :???: I guess I should be happy with the situation at my current employer!
it is as legal as employers insisting on a bond for signing the PR forms ! between 3 years to 5 years Bond !

Yes, me too should be delighted at the lesser paying job I am parked now .. considering that it is a wild man-eat-dog world out there.

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Post by zzm9980 » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:12 pm

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote: Wow, is *that* legal? :shock: :???: I guess I should be happy with the situation at my current employer!
it is as legal as employers insisting on a bond for signing the PR forms ! between 3 years to 5 years Bond !
So again, are these things really legal, or just not prosecuted?

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Post by the lynx » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:22 pm

As long they fulfil the minimum requirements stated by MOM, anything else which is agreed by both employer and employee is deemed legit.

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Post by the lynx » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:23 pm

ecureilx wrote:it is as legal as employers insisting on a bond for signing the PR forms ! between 3 years to 5 years Bond !

Yes, me too should be delighted at the lesser paying job I am parked now .. considering that it is a wild man-eat-dog world out there.
On similar note, some companies push their foreign employees to apply for PR just because they wanna clear for the foreign employee quota set upon them.

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Post by zzm9980 » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:23 pm

the lynx wrote:As long they fulfil the minimum requirements stated by MOM, anything else which is agreed by both employer and employee is deemed legit.
Ok, so make more than 2500/month and no protections. Wow heh. Good to know. Further cements into my mind to only work for an MNC (preferably US -based) while here!

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Post by ecureilx » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:32 pm

the lynx wrote:
ecureilx wrote:it is as legal as employers insisting on a bond for signing the PR forms ! between 3 years to 5 years Bond !

Yes, me too should be delighted at the lesser paying job I am parked now .. considering that it is a wild man-eat-dog world out there.
On similar note, some companies push their foreign employees to apply for PR just because they wanna clear for the foreign employee quota set upon them.
From my experience ? most SMEs dont' want you to get PR, lest you become too independent and decide to run away ... or start to worry if you are bugging off ..

MNCs, again, from my experience, don't generally care and indirectly encourage you, mainly to avoid the hassle of EP and the renewal and all and anybody who asks for the endorsment and all letters, it is promptly issued.

Manufacturing and service, which depends a lot on foreign workers, never been in Manufacturing line. So, no idea.

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Post by the lynx » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 4:39 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
the lynx wrote:As long they fulfil the minimum requirements stated by MOM, anything else which is agreed by both employer and employee is deemed legit.
Ok, so make more than 2500/month and no protections. Wow heh. Good to know. Further cements into my mind to only work for an MNC (preferably US -based) while here!
STAY.THERE.WHILE.YOU.CAN

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Post by revhappy » Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:19 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
revhappy wrote: But the majority of IT contracting companies get people on EP and pay them a fix amount of eg. 5k and when the convert to PR, both the employers and employees contribution come from that same 5k. So after 3 years of the scaling contribution is over the employees take home becomes 3.2k. All this is clearly mentioned in the offer letter.
Wow, is *that* legal? :shock: :???: I guess I should be happy with the situation at my current employer!
Actually, I dont think there is anything wrong with it. Its just a matter of how the pay structure is presented to you. How about if they tell you, "While you are on EP, your sal is 4.2k and 800$ is the employer's contribution that we are paying you regardless, aren't we generous :P" .

In fact, I feel that companies that pay the employers contribution only if the person gets converted to PR, actually promotes PR abuse and the person on EP is at a disadvantage compared to SC/SPR.

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Post by x9200 » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 8:21 am

zzm9980 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote: Wow, is *that* legal? :shock: :???: I guess I should be happy with the situation at my current employer!
it is as legal as employers insisting on a bond for signing the PR forms ! between 3 years to 5 years Bond !
So again, are these things really legal, or just not prosecuted?
Neither. You miss in depth info for the anecdotal evidence presented in places like this forum. Fortunately revhappy was kind enough to expand a bit what he threw here earlier.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:19 am

We, unlike squirrel's employer, are a small SME and we love it when our employees get PR. We find, since 2009, that we have a better chance of keeping them with PR then we do while they are on S passes as it's always a gamble at renewal time with the tightening up of criteria to be able to keep them, thanks to MOM. Once they are on PR, as noted, they don't impact our quota and opens up another slot.
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Post by ecureilx » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:51 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:We, unlike squirrel's employer, are a small SME and we love it when our employees get PR. We find, since 2009, that we have a better chance of keeping them with PR then we do while they are on S passes as it's always a gamble at renewal time with the tightening up of criteria to be able to keep them, thanks to MOM. Once they are on PR, as noted, they don't impact our quota and opens up another slot.
An eeny meany correction .. MY FORMER EMPLOYERS WERE PREDOMINANTLY LIKE THAT ..

Oh, want references, I can quote a dozen plus plus small companis who aer extremely terrified of the staff's mobility once they are on EP ! Especially in the IT / SI Line.

In your trade, maybe, staff migration is the least of your worries !

In other trades, I have seen HR and managers terrified of losing staff, and are on the constant to lookout for 'warning' signs, and prod the colleagues if they feel employee x is showing signs of leaving, and keeping them on EP - they think the staff will think twice before jumping ship. Which was true a few years ago when the MOM rule was that you must resign and cancel the EP before submitting a new one, unlike now, where you can jump ship after getting your new EP.

Of late, of course, getting staff into PR maybe wiser, as you explain.

No offense.

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