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China Professor called Singapore people piece of shit

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yancieng
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China Professor called Singapore people piece of shit

Postby yancieng » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 2:50 pm

A Professor from Beijing University used Singapore as an example, he said people who reliance on law like Singapore is a piece of shit, have no quality.

This guy (孔慶東) talk bullshit on the central tv channel of China, he's now very famous in China, everyone know his name and most of the Chinese agree with what he said.

It was a long speech, mainly talking about Hong Kong people are dogs, dogs shits. This video cut to the part he mention Singapore people are like Hong Kong people, is piece of shit.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=R_CFeqVpBy8

News:
URL CENSORED DUE TO COPYRIGHT ISSUES

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Postby beppi » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 7:43 pm

Is anyone taking such nationalist blubber serious (other than Chinese blockheads)?
This is completely devoid of consequences. On the other hand, talking similarly about Taiwan (which they do!), might start a war. (All wars are started by blockheads.)

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Postby Barri » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 2:12 pm

So he is saying that governments who have to force common courtesy by law instead out of human nature are ruling people without any quality.

Hmm afcourse ideal-wise governments should not need to that.
However on the practical side it is necessary in Singapore since there are so many different cultures living together.

Therefore it can be concluded that the professor is predominantly focussed on philosophical ideas that doesn't have any base in reality regarding the country and the people he is so rudely judging.

I also do not think this professor is qualified to judge about law, organizations or any other practical field regarding managing a country.
Therefore his unscientific statements can only be seen as advertising for his new book.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 4:32 pm

Barri wrote:So he is saying that governments who have to force common courtesy by law instead out of human nature are ruling people without any quality.

Hmm afcourse ideal-wise governments should not need to that.
However on the practical side it is necessary in Singapore since there are so many different cultures living together.


Are you suggesting that lack of graciousness is tied to multi-culturalism? If so, I'd be interested in hearing in what way you see the connection.

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Postby beppi » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 4:38 pm

Experience shows that countries which emphasisze their cultural and/or ethnic homogenity (e.g. France, Korea, Japan, China) are less tolerant towards foreigners than a muti-cultural nation.
Anybody who has been to China and Singapore will attest that the level of rudeness is much greater in China.
These are two major aspects I count under "graciousness". Singapore wins hands-down, whatever these Chinese nationalists want to believe.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 4:57 pm

I think the professor was talking about behavior being restricted by fines. I don't really think lack of tolerance and rudeness come top of that list.

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Postby Barri » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 5:22 pm

JR8 wrote:
Barri wrote:So he is saying that governments who have to force common courtesy by law instead out of human nature are ruling people without any quality.

Hmm afcourse ideal-wise governments should not need to that.
However on the practical side it is necessary in Singapore since there are so many different cultures living together.


Are you suggesting that lack of graciousness is tied to multi-culturalism? If so, I'd be interested in hearing in what way you see the connection.


No not at all. (Why on earth would I have an idea like that?!??)

In this case (since the professor was talking about the anti smoking law) it refers to smoking. Is there in every country a anti smoking law? I thought not. I can remember how much time it took for people in Europe to get used to that law and grin they are still protesting. So it could be possible that some people are less "trained" regarding smoking in public and therefore need warning signs to remind them.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 6:36 pm

Something must have got lost in translation as you seemed to be linking the necessity to force common courtesy, with multi-culturalism. I took the former to be the kind of issues we have previously discussed under the umbrella of graciousness, and the Graciousness Campaign. Things like throwing rubbish from windows, flushing toilets, chewing-gum. MRT seats for the less well abled etc.

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick, my question was not judgemental. I think it might be interesting if something linked lack of graciousness with multi-culturalism. It’s a link I’ve not seen made before... so interesting to explore right?

I’m not sure who brought up smoking, you or the professor? You’re saying some non-native nationalities are not aware of SGn laws and so need warnings (or the threat of fines) to remind them?

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Postby Barri » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:34 am

JR8 wrote:Something must have got lost in translation as you seemed to be linking the necessity to force common courtesy, with multi-culturalism. I took the former to be the kind of issues we have previously discussed under the umbrella of graciousness, and the Graciousness Campaign. Things like throwing rubbish from windows, flushing toilets, chewing-gum. MRT seats for the less well abled etc.

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick, my question was not judgemental. I think it might be interesting if something linked lack of graciousness with multi-culturalism. It’s a link I’ve not seen made before... so interesting to explore right?

I’m not sure who brought up smoking, you or the professor? You’re saying some non-native nationalities are not aware of SGn laws and so need warnings (or the threat of fines) to remind them?


I can't remember discussing graciousness campaigns with you. In fact I think you are confusing me with somebody else.
I looked at the link saw the professor talking about the fines for smoking and was therefor focussed on that.

I think it is a very touchy subject you bring forward there, one that could be easily misunderstood or taken the wrong way.
So grin let me try it:

Let me first state what I take as a fact:
Every member of a culture, nationality, province etc have usually a cultural frame of courtecy (unwritten rules)
Even in a country without any other nationalities (do they even exist?) experiences differences in cultural frames like people from the country vs people from cities, older vs younger generation, high income groups vs lower income groups.
No matter what a certain group thinks all groups have their own kind of courtesy.

Ok so within these facts:
Let's take a country as Singapore.
Singapore has a own culture and a way of doing things like chopping, a tendency not to raise voices, calling non-family members above a certain age auntie or uncle etc.
For a stranger with his or her own cultural frame it takes a while to discover all these unwritten differences. Then it also depends on own preference which unwritten rules to accept, or use in own advantage or to discard.
Singaporeans have probably noticed which members of certain cultural frames are more prone to accept a certain unwritten rule and what kind of unwritten rules they discard and what kind of unwritten rules they themselves try to impose on Singaporeans.

I perceive the Singaporeans as very careful in first contact situations; wherein they try to establish the cultural frame of the new comer.
Once the nationality is found out and a Singaporean knows others from the same nationality the Singaporean has a frame on how to deal with the "new specimen :)" the conversation is more free flowing and small differences get solved, debated or explained along the way.
The Singaporean then even goes so far as to invite the new comer to cultural events and get togethers :) where the new specimen is more and more intertwined with Singapore culture.

Unfortunately some new specimens only focus on other specimens with the same cultural frames and do not have much chance to be guided by a native guide what makes them not understanding stand out and even critical or downright rejecting towards the cultural frame of the country they are residing in.

Still through media, government and debate even those groups get reached sooner or later. So almost every new comer gets a piece of Singapore culture to take with him when he or she goes back to her own country.

So in short I think that a multi cultural society is even more resilient, inventive and more gracious then a non-multi cultural could be.

Afcourse the are some struggles and hurt feelings along the way but that comes with a living and continuously developing cultural frame as a living organism.
I have doubts about the resilience and graciousness of cultural frames in a more static environment. An attitude like take it or you are outcast does nothing for growth, self-examination and accepting and is therefor prone to become outdated and obsolete in the first storm they encounter.

It can be clearly seen in the professor his opinions - he states something but doesn't try to explain it or to research the why. He then rejects it rudely as outside his cultural frame - an attitude like that comes afcourse from a non-learning cultural frame who feel threatened by the changes they see. He then takes a rigid stance which will probably appeal to those with the same frame and even feels the need to insult. But that wont stop the storm he is seeing and he will end up as a stranger in his own country.
I do not see that happen with the more adaptive Singaporeans who are busy developing a cultural framework that is continuously debated.[/u]

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Re: China Professor called Singapore people piece of shit

Postby Manthink » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:36 pm

yancieng wrote:he's now very famous in China, everyone know his name and most of the Chinese agree with what he said.

It was a long speech, mainly talking about Hong Kong people are dogs, dogs shits. This video cut to the part he mention Singapore people are like Hong Kong people, is piece of shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=R_CFeqVpBy8


The short clip title has miss-translated the word used by this attention-seeker.
The word he had used is "" - or "cheap" .... not some brown-substance.
Ref: http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE8ZdicB4ZdicB1.htm

The only reference to Singapore is into 6 min when he contested the host's defence that Hong Kong is a cleaner place due to its law and order.

Here is the complete segment with both traditional-Chinese and (less-than reliable) English subtitle, which I assumed was the source of some non-Chinese miss-representation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko5MSXZjmBE

I , and many of the Chinese netizen that I have read disagree with this character's statement and the unprofessional conduct.

He owns the Hong Kong people an apology.
Image

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Postby Manthink » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:57 pm

Barri wrote:Ok so within these facts:
Let's take a country as Singapore.
Singapore has a own culture and a way of doing things like chopping, a tendency not to raise voices, calling non-family members above a certain age auntie or uncle etc.

Partly untrue.
The chopping-tissue isn't a "culture". It is a behavioral manifestation of pathological antisocial personality disorder. :x


Unfortunately some new specimens only focus on other specimens with the same cultural frames and do not have much chance to be guided by a native guide what makes them not understanding stand out and even critical or downright rejecting towards the cultural frame of the country they are residing in.

True.
I have observed similar "new specimens" behavior here in SEF. :wink:


So in short I think that a multi cultural society is even more resilient, inventive and more gracious then a non-multi cultural could be.

Not true.
Think Japan. :P

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:17 am

You Chinese people need to get less uptight. He was there to promote his new book.

What do you expect him to do, not say anything noteworthy, or heavens forbid controversial?

Most other nationalities are wise enough to recognise when a story is being spun for effect, and hence give it appropriate credence.

Aren't the Chinese able to do this too? Do they need their government to make laws to protect them against others saying mean things?

p.s. Heaven forbid Jeremy Clarkson was Chinese. I'd expect national apoplexy.

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Postby Manthink » Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:33 am

...aaannddd...I am happy to add that a Chinese-version of Clarkson does not exist.

And even it does, such "specimen" will never get the chance to make million$ while insulting others on TV. :P

So let's hope the Hong Kong people learn to be less uptight and cut this Professor some slack after name-calling them for sake of the alleged money-making venture or whatever...

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Postby carteki » Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:37 pm

@Barri - I think that your view of Singaporeans integration with foreigners while true for a segment of the population may not be true for all. Read the local forums to see the FT-bashing; my own experiences; this forum to see some of the racism against non chinese sg'ers (ie not foreigners just a different 'colour')
But I agree - the vid was made by someone who wanted to make a point to be heard, irrespective of what that point was and has no basis in fact.

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Postby BillyB » Wed, 25 Jan 2012 1:31 pm

beppi wrote:Experience shows that countries which emphasisze their cultural and/or ethnic homogenity (e.g. France, Korea, Japan, China) are less tolerant towards foreigners than a muti-cultural nation.
Anybody who has been to China and Singapore will attest that the level of rudeness is much greater in China.
These are two major aspects I count under "graciousness". Singapore wins hands-down, whatever these Chinese nationalists want to believe.


Personally, I'd seriously question that.

I've lived in Singapore, Hong Kong and worked in stints in Shanghai, Qingdao and Beijing.

I think you're mis-interpreting the less-developed citizens in China and communities as being rude; spitting, local slang, not understanding foreigners. A big factor which contributes to your comment is not understanding the local dialects and slang.
I find the large majority of mainlanders to be polite, funny, very driven and eager to make a success of opportunities they are given.


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