Singapore Expats Forum

PR Profile Part 11

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
A little ball of fur
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Postby A little ball of fur » Sat, 21 Jan 2012 5:08 pm

Then why the rush to obtain Singapore Permanent Residency? The moment you mentioned that you were not willing to part with the 10% property stamp duty and asked if your application for PR could be expedited because you are a Malaysian Chinese, that itself raised a big red flag that you are only wanting to milk the system. :)

The other thing going against you is that your OH is British and will be unemployed in Singapore for the first few months. Had he been Malaysian Chinese, chances would be a bit higher. Though, not guaranteed.

The SG gahmen has seen enough abuses to sift out PR abusers. In your case, it raises a lot of red flags. If you are truly committed to sinking your roots in Singapore, fork out the extra 10% for a property, and show that you are committed, and stay in Singapore for a few years before applying for your Permanent Residency. :)

PrimroseHill wrote:Boys and Girls, tsk tsk tsk. Assumptions assumptions. I asked about those CPF questions because it is legit, simple. 20 or so years down the line, I may decide that I will have enough of the rat race and retire in some kampung fishing.

Yeah, I have the job already, job is secured. Reason for not applying for a British naturalisation as opposed to just being an Indefinite leave to remain are 2fold and rather simple in its reasonings - (a) being a Msian citizen does not afford me the privilege of dual nationality. Also travelling around the world on a Msian passport living in UK has been and is still a breeze. (b) at the back of my mind as well as my OH's we have always intend to retire to Msia, however, with the politics the way it is, Singapore it will have to be and long weekends in Msia.

It is that simple. I am not going to Singapore to exploit its benefits or rights afforded to its PR or citizens. Just like living here for the past 24years, I have not exploits the welfare benefits in the UK. This isn't a Daily Mail situation whereby someone has 9kids with 9different dads and the council is paying £2k per week in rent in Knightbridge.

The questions that I have asked are valid and concerns the different facets of my live, our lives. Handle it, I am sure when you guys emigrated, you guys have had considered all these as well, what happened or will happen to your NI etc. Give me a break here!!!
:)

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Postby beppi » Sat, 21 Jan 2012 7:50 pm

To sum up the above: You should apply for PR about 6 months after your husband starts work to have a realistic chance for approval. The application process then takes 6 months or so (with a very high variation, some take weeks some years). If you are rejected (which is still quite possible) you can apply again a year later.

There isn't a big difference between rent for an apartment and capital cost for buying the same (i.e. interest on mortgage or investments you'd have done with the money otherwise), so you don't actually lose much when renting and you have far greater flexibility.

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Postby PrimroseHill » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 3:49 am

The red flags warning- thank you. I am not rushing in order to abuse the system. It is more a physcological thing than an abusive action. OH should be able to find a job reasonably quickly & easily. We both have great transferable skills.
We have owned our own homes since we graduated from universities all those years ago. Its a mentality thing. Its the ability to hang a picture & knowing that its your own home. If I want to paint my rooms black, I can. I guess you guys don't understand.

Wait it is then. Thank you very much for all your advice & suggestions

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Postby beppi » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 4:03 am

Buying a property in Singapore isn't small cash - a million S$ won't give you a nice place!
If you are that rich that this is not a financial issue, and your psychology demands home ownership, then why wait?!?
Anybody can buy an apartment at any time (and landed property is out of bounds even for PRs).
But if it IS a financial issue, you should probably avoid buying at the peak of the market (which is probably around now). property prices here swing more wildly than in most pother places.

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 4:37 am

PrimroseHill wrote:The red flags warning- thank you. I am not rushing in order to abuse the system. It is more a physcological thing than an abusive action. OH should be able to find a job reasonably quickly & easily. We both have great transferable skills.
We have owned our own homes since we graduated from universities all those years ago. Its a mentality thing. Its the ability to hang a picture & knowing that its your own home. If I want to paint my rooms black, I can. I guess you guys don't understand.

Wait it is then. Thank you very much for all your advice & suggestions


I think the facts are...
- you seem to think you are in VVIP expres lane to PR and hence avoiding stamp duty.
- psychological needs. Too bad. Welcome to the world of reality the rest of us occupy.
- No one cares how long you've owned property for. Why should they?
- Hang pictures in a rental, paint it black. The remedy? Buy a pot of $5 filler and a can of paint.

My suggestion? Forget PR and just pay the stamp duty if you're so committed and needy of a SGn home.

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Postby PrimroseHill » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 8:28 pm

JR8 wrote:
PrimroseHill wrote:The red flags warning- thank you. I am not rushing in order to abuse the system. It is more a physcological thing than an abusive action. OH should be able to find a job reasonably quickly & easily. We both have great transferable skills.
We have owned our own homes since we graduated from universities all those years ago. Its a mentality thing. Its the ability to hang a picture & knowing that its your own home. If I want to paint my rooms black, I can. I guess you guys don't understand.

Wait it is then. Thank you very much for all your advice & suggestions


I think the facts are...
- you seem to think you are in VVIP expres lane to PR and hence avoiding stamp duty.
- psychological needs. Too bad. Welcome to the world of reality the rest of us occupy.
- No one cares how long you've owned property for. Why should they?
- Hang pictures in a rental, paint it black. The remedy? Buy a pot of $5 filler and a can of paint.

My suggestion? Forget PR and just pay the stamp duty if you're so committed and needy of a SGn home.


Why such vindictiveness? Did I ever profess to think of myself and my family being a VVIP? Do you have a chip on your shoulder? Does bashing me or flaming me gives you a sense of satisfaction? Go ahead.

Like I said at the end of my previous, wait it is then.

Thank you for everyone else for all your advise and comments, inflamatory or otherwise. I appreciate it. Do I think that property prices in Spore is really high at the moment? Yes, I do. It would be more interesting to observe and watch over the next couple of months as the ABSD get more embeded into the system, if it managed to cool the market down. I read a report that last month the property market cool considerably as the ABSD kicked in.

Despite the world economic crisis in UK and high unemployment, house prices in London continues to rise. For our part Singapore property market is pretty much akin to London property market. Yeah, condo/apartment is a possiblity. No one wants to pay an extra 7% on stamp duty if they don't have to. Money do not grow on trees. Everyone has a budget. Everyone has compromises to make. Unless you are the Sultan of Brunei or Mr. Gates or Mr. Rich.
Like I said in my previous post. Rinse repeat, rinse repeat. I shall wait until after PR

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Postby sweetgazebo » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 9:53 pm

Ignoring JR8 is probably the best. A lot of JR8's bullets below is based on assumptions.

BTW, why would you want to consider a pigeon-hole in Singapore (which price is it that's equivalent to a price of a house in the UK)? With your EPF have you ever considered a semi-d (that's half of what pigeon holes cost here) across the cause way?

PrimroseHill wrote:
JR8 wrote:I think the facts are...
- you seem to think you are in VVIP expres lane to PR and hence avoiding stamp duty.
- psychological needs. Too bad. Welcome to the world of reality the rest of us occupy.
- No one cares how long you've owned property for. Why should they?
- Hang pictures in a rental, paint it black. The remedy? Buy a pot of $5 filler and a can of paint.

My suggestion? Forget PR and just pay the stamp duty if you're so committed and needy of a SGn home.


Why such vindictiveness? Did I ever profess to think of myself and my family being a VVIP? Do you have a chip on your shoulder? Does bashing me or flaming me gives you a sense of satisfaction? Go ahead.

Like I said at the end of my previous, wait it is then.

Thank you for everyone else for all your advise and comments, inflamatory or otherwise. I appreciate it. Do I think that property prices in Singapore is really high at the moment? Yes, I do. It would be more interesting to observe and watch over the next couple of months as the ABSD get more embeded into the system, if it managed to cool the market down. I read a report that last month the property market cool considerably as the ABSD kicked in.

Despite the world economic crisis in UK and high unemployment, house prices in London continues to rise. For our part Singapore property market is pretty much akin to London property market. Yeah, condo/apartment is a possiblity. No one wants to pay an extra 7% on stamp duty if they don't have to. Money do not grow on trees. Everyone has a budget. Everyone has compromises to make. Unless you are the Sultan of Brunei or Mr. Gates or Mr. Rich.
Like I said in my previous post. Rinse repeat, rinse repeat. I shall wait until after PR

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:34 pm

PrimroseHill wrote:Why such vindictiveness? Did I ever profess to think of myself and my family being a VVIP? Do you have a chip on your shoulder? Does bashing me or flaming me gives you a sense of satisfaction? Go ahead.


Vindictive, moi? Not at all, just expressing my thoughts on the situation as I see it. The opening proposition was, roughly, how to get PR for the family so as to avoid paying ABSD on a property purchase, on the basis that your husband will not accept paying rent. And that as you’ve always owned property... er, you can’t not own one in SG (or you could, but you’re not willing to pay the ABSD). And that, you can’t possibly live in a rental as you won’t be able to ‘settle down properly’, only a subsidised purchase via PR status is acceptable. I’ve seen similar arguments made here many times to justify why someone feels they are somehow entitled to express PR. It wears rather thin rather quickly.

sweetgazebo wrote: Ignoring JR8 is probably the best. A lot of JR8's bullets below is based on assumptions.


In your own words gazebo[i] “Look! if you are not happy with the statements I am making then too bad”

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Postby PrimroseHill » Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:05 pm

sweetgazebo wrote:Ignoring JR8 is probably the best. A lot of JR8's bullets below is based on assumptions.

BTW, why would you want to consider a pigeon-hole in Singapore (which price is it that's equivalent to a price of a house in the UK)? With your EPF have you ever considered a semi-d (that's half of what pigeon holes cost here) across the cause way?

PrimroseHill wrote:
JR8 wrote:I think the facts are...
- you seem to think you are in VVIP expres lane to PR and hence avoiding stamp duty.
- psychological needs. Too bad. Welcome to the world of reality the rest of us occupy.
- No one cares how long you've owned property for. Why should they?
- Hang pictures in a rental, paint it black. The remedy? Buy a pot of $5 filler and a can of paint.

My suggestion? Forget PR and just pay the stamp duty if you're so committed and needy of a SGn home.


Why such vindictiveness? Did I ever profess to think of myself and my family being a VVIP? Do you have a chip on your shoulder? Does bashing me or flaming me gives you a sense of satisfaction? Go ahead.

Like I said at the end of my previous, wait it is then.

Thank you for everyone else for all your advise and comments, inflamatory or otherwise. I appreciate it. Do I think that property prices in Singapore is really high at the moment? Yes, I do. It would be more interesting to observe and watch over the next couple of months as the ABSD get more embeded into the system, if it managed to cool the market down. I read a report that last month the property market cool considerably as the ABSD kicked in.

Despite the world economic crisis in UK and high unemployment, house prices in London continues to rise. For our part Singapore property market is pretty much akin to London property market. Yeah, condo/apartment is a possiblity. No one wants to pay an extra 7% on stamp duty if they don't have to. Money do not grow on trees. Everyone has a budget. Everyone has compromises to make. Unless you are the Sultan of Brunei or Mr. Gates or Mr. Rich.
Like I said in my previous post. Rinse repeat, rinse repeat. I shall wait until after PR


My EPF/KWSP in Msia is nominal. I was working there for a short time as I was in the process of applying for my indefinite leave to remain in the UK then.

I have thought about living across the causeway but the commute is horrendous. Currently, we live in London and the commute is half hour door to door. Pigeon hole is pigeon hole :lol: Its a place we call home. I place that I can hang my hat, shut the door to the world and feel safe.

The forum, I have stupidly believe is a way of sharing and passing on advise and helping others. Its also my belief that its where each of us can help one another.
Like I said before, JRB, I am not Marc Rich or Bill Gates. I am on a budget and compromises have to be made. I would love to be able to avoid the 10% of the ABSD but if I can't then I wait. It is as simple as that.

No big deal. I was not asking for special privileges. Nor am I coming to Spore to abuse the system either. Nor am I looking for an American husband either. It is what it is. The system says that I have to wait till PR has been approved, then I wait, simple.
Like I said thank you very much for all the help and advise.

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Postby sweetgazebo » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:02 am

You will be surprised to hear that there are so many white collar professionals who are living in JB and commuting to work in Singapore.

You might want to check out the following blog ...http://expatjohor.blogspot.com/. I found this blog over at SGExpat when trying to figure out how to sort out the ever increasing rent that's driving me crazy. I am now thinking of buying a semi-d over in JB and commuting to and fro Singapore every day. For me the most important is a great living environment after a hard day's work every day. And pigeon holes are worse places to be in. Even worse when I am stressed out and want to scream on top of my head without the worry of disturbing my neighbours who are living next door with only a thin wall dividing me from them!


PrimroseHill wrote:I have thought about living across the causeway but the commute is horrendous. Currently, we live in London and the commute is half hour door to door. Pigeon hole is pigeon hole :lol: Its a place we call home. I place that I can hang my hat, shut the door to the world and feel safe.

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Postby sweetgazebo » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:22 am

there you go again ... arguing for the sake of arguing. You certainly cannot take as much as a mild remark can't you? ... gawd! Whoever said I was or was not happy with your statements. Your statements to the OP, if anything, only amuses me. I only told the OP to ignore you coz you certainly ARE making false assumptions. Does asking the OP to ignore you mean that I am 'not happy with the statements I am making then too bad'?!

In addition to your inferiority complex and with all that sarcasm in your bullet points to the OP you come across as someone with a baggage.

If you are going to reply to my statements above (which I am sure you will) I am just going to sit back, relax and entertain myself with your next senseless sarcasm shooting.


JR8 wrote:
sweetgazebo wrote: Ignoring JR8 is probably the best. A lot of JR8's bullets below is based on assumptions.


In your own words gazebo[i] “Look! if you are not happy with the statements I am making then too bad”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 1:12 am

sweetgazebo,

After a pretty thorough search of the CPF site, it would seem that you will have several problems with EPF / CPF.

Firstly, I don't think you can transfer your EPF to your CPF account as you are still a Malaysian Citizen. Assuming you do get PR at some point in the future, you will not be able to withdraw your CPF at all unless you are over 50 and have not been working in Singapore for at least two years or you are still in W. Malaysia and are over 55. The key, it seems, is dependent on your citizenship if you are under 50. So, even if you return to the UK but remain a Malaysian citizen, you will not be able to withdraw your CPF either due to your citizenship unless you can document the fact that your intentions are to never return to Malaysia. This you have already indicated you desired to do, return to Malaysia. Again, as a Malaysian Chinese you have much going for you, but, as you have already accepted, you will probably still need to go through the motions re: time in situ in Singapore before applying for PR for the family. Ideally it would be good if you OH has a position as well and both could show 3 years Tax returns prior to application. But as noted elsewhere, the rules do state you can apply after 6 months. I'd make it 6 months after both are duly employed, but I'd also be aware that in all probability it may get rejected with a reapplication would be entertained after 24 months.

As far as the purchase of property is concerned, I won't go there. You already know that situation. Express PR is almost certainly out of the question. The gahmen cannot be shown to bend the rules, I'm pretty sure you recognize that fact.

sms

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Postby PrimroseHill » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 5:52 am

sweetgazebo wrote:You will be surprised to hear that there are so many white collar professionals who are living in JB and commuting to work in Singapore.

You might want to check out the following blog ...http://expatjohor.blogspot.com/. I found this blog over at SGExpat when trying to figure out how to sort out the ever increasing rent that's driving me crazy. I am now thinking of buying a semi-d over in JB and commuting to and fro Singapore every day. For me the most important is a great living environment after a hard day's work every day. And pigeon holes are worse places to be in. Even worse when I am stressed out and want to scream on top of my head without the worry of disturbing my neighbours who are living next door with only a thin wall dividing me from them!


PrimroseHill wrote:I have thought about living across the causeway but the commute is horrendous. Currently, we live in London and the commute is half hour door to door. Pigeon hole is pigeon hole :lol: Its a place we call home. I place that I can hang my hat, shut the door to the world and feel safe.


Thank you for that nugget of information. I will look into that.
SMS, thank you for your advice about the EPF and CPF. To be perfectly honest, chances of OH & I coming back to UK to retire is slim and none. I had only wanted to know about the EPF & CPF because, I have some money, not much in West Msia and I couldn't take it out until (a) I reach 55 or (b) I renounce my citizenship. I had thought if I could transfer it into one pot, then at least its easier to manage.
It is what it is. If I can't then it is something that I will have to accept.

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Postby sweetgazebo » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:21 pm

Of the 2, the latter is definitely enlightening!

JR8 wrote:I think the facts are...
- you seem to think you are in VVIP expres lane to PR and hence avoiding stamp duty.
- psychological needs. Too bad. Welcome to the world of reality the rest of us occupy.
- No one cares how long you've owned property for. Why should they?
- Hang pictures in a rental, paint it black. The remedy? Buy a pot of $5 filler and a can of paint.

My suggestion? Forget PR and just pay the stamp duty if you're so committed and needy of a SGn home.



sundaymorningstaple wrote:After a pretty thorough search of the CPF site, it would seem that you will have several problems with EPF / CPF.

Firstly, I don't think you can transfer your EPF to your CPF account as you are still a Malaysian Citizen. Assuming you do get PR at some point in the future, you will not be able to withdraw your CPF at all unless you are over 50 and have not been working in Singapore for at least two years or you are still in W. Malaysia and are over 55. The key, it seems, is dependent on your citizenship if you are under 50. So, even if you return to the UK but remain a Malaysian citizen, you will not be able to withdraw your CPF either due to your citizenship unless you can document the fact that your intentions are to never return to Malaysia. This you have already indicated you desired to do, return to Malaysia. Again, as a Malaysian Chinese you have much going for you, but, as you have already accepted, you will probably still need to go through the motions re: time in situ in Singapore before applying for PR for the family. Ideally it would be good if you OH has a position as well and both could show 3 years Tax returns prior to application. But as noted elsewhere, the rules do state you can apply after 6 months. I'd make it 6 months after both are duly employed, but I'd also be aware that in all probability it may get rejected with a reapplication would be entertained after 24 months.

As far as the purchase of property is concerned, I won't go there. You already know that situation. Express PR is almost certainly out of the question. The gahmen cannot be shown to bend the rules, I'm pretty sure you recognize that fact.


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