Any Americans here become Singaporeans?

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zzm9980
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Any Americans here become Singaporeans?

Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 4:30 pm

Hello,

I'm just mildly curious about the logistics of the process of becoming a Singaporean. From what I understand, you have to give up your current citizenship when you become Singaporean. However as an American, you have to apply to renounce your citizenship, and it has to be approved. (Mostly for tax implications and potentially having to pay future estimated taxs).

So as an American, will Singaporean refuse to naturalize you until you've gone through this? Or will you still have defacto dual-citizenship? I guess I'm mostly curious how as to both how stringent Singapore is on enforcing "no dual citizenship" and how much of a pain the US Consulate is about letting citizen renounce their American citizenship.

Again, I'm not looking to do this currently, I'm mostly just curious. If the time ever comes I'll have to think long and hard if that blue passport is worth so many (tens of) thousands of dollars per year to keep.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 5:38 pm

Bernie Utchenik, more commonly know as the face behind Botak Jones restaurants, is a former American who took up Citizenship here in August 2009.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by zzm9980 » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 8:05 pm

Doesn't help much unless Mr Botak Jones is posts here and can give input...

...or perhaps a nice discount on one of those nice spicy thai burgers for a fellow "scr@#$d by the IRS!" neighbor :D

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Post by beppi » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 10:09 pm

You asked if there are Americans who became Singaporeans. You got an answer.

Singapore will only give citizenship when you prove that you have renounced your other citizenship.
Once you are Singapore citizen, it is a heavily penalized crime to apply for another citizenship without renouncing the Singapore one. Better don't!

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Post by BillyB » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:32 pm

I'm curious now - not that I'd ever give up my UK citizenship - but how are you classified if you renounce your citizenship before you get a new one?

Surely the process must be transitional? And if you don't have citizenship how do you travel?

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Post by beppi » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:43 pm

You can become stateless if you are not careful. Many refugees are (not by choice, but because their origin country does not recognize them any more). They cannot travel and are at best tolerated where they are. A few get UN refugee papers, which allow limited border crossings in a few countries (not many).

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:12 am

I believe you will be given a receipt for the renunciation application when filed with the US State Department at the US Embassy. Once you have the receipt stating the renunciation papers have been filed, you can proceed with your new Citizenship. You don't renounce BEFORE you get the approval for Citizenship. But you apply for renunciation before you take up the new citizenship.

It's the same scenario as for dual citizenship minors here. If they are going to keep their Singaporean citizenship here upon reaching the age of 21 then they must first file the renunciation application with the US State Department and bring that receipt of filing back to the ICA for verification. Only then will they allow the child to take the oath of allegiance to Singapore.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by x9200 » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 8:32 am

BillyB wrote:I'm curious now - not that I'd ever give up my UK citizenship - but how are you classified if you renounce your citizenship before you get a new one?

Surely the process must be transitional? And if you don't have citizenship how do you travel?
I guess depends on the countries. Some will allow renunciation without already acquired another citizenship, some not. US allows AFAICS. Singapore is not even a part of the respective UN convention on the statelessness.

Documents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_identity

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Post by zzm9980 » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 8:43 am

beppi wrote:You asked if there are Americans who became Singaporeans. You got an answer.
Sorry, the topic was rhetorical to reflect the real questions that lied within :P

The process makes a lot more sense now. Apply to renounce, get approved/receive for new citizenship, finish renouncement.

I was reading about a lot of the new tax implications from the IRS for expats, and a quote from an old article on the Economist got me thinking:

"Under the new structure, it would make financial sense for any young American working overseas with a promising career to renounce his citizenship as early as possible, before his assets accumulate."

Lots to consider! Thankfully, I have time. :)

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Post by ecureilx » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 11:11 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Bernie Utchenik, more commonly know as the face behind Botak Jones restaurants, is a former American who took up Citizenship here in August 2009.




Oh, don't quote me .. but .. I thought Bernie's 'spousal' obligations forced him to 'convert' both ways :D :D :P :P

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:32 pm

Who cares. :???:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by zzm9980 » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 4:41 pm

ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Bernie Utchenik, more commonly know as the face behind Botak Jones restaurants, is a former American who took up Citizenship here in August 2009.




Oh, don't quote me .. but .. I thought Bernie's 'spousal' obligations forced him to 'convert' both ways :D :D :P :P
Is this why Botak Jones advertises itself as "Halal western food"? I always wondered about that!

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 5:27 pm

Could be, but Burger King was one of the last of the fast food restaurants in Singapore to get Halal certifications. When they did, they lost a lot of customers in the short term as most don't care for "turkey bacon". I was one of them. Once the got there Halal cert that opened up a whole new revenue stream from the Muslim community that McD & KFC had cornered for a couple years with there Halal Certs.

But yeah, in Bernie's case it was probably two-fold as his shops are in the heartlands and not in the high rent districts.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by zzm9980 » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 9:08 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: But yeah, in Bernie's case it was probably two-fold as his shops are in the heartlands and not in the high rent districts.
Except the one at Somerset? I'm still relatively new to Singapore, but I didn't consider that heartland :P

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Post by BillyB » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 9:18 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Bernie Utchenik, more commonly know as the face behind Botak Jones restaurants, is a former American who took up Citizenship here in August 2009.




Oh, don't quote me .. but .. I thought Bernie's 'spousal' obligations forced him to 'convert' both ways :D :D :P :P
Is this why Botak Jones advertises itself as "Halal western food"? I always wondered about that!
I'm gonna pay Botak a visit tomorrow - it's been a while since I've had a sirloin there. Very good indeed for the price.....

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