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Postby farlene » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 3:39 pm

I asked a very simple question and u were not obliged to reply or help.
But you did, so thank you for taking 5 minutes out of your busy life to critic every single thing i typed. good on you mate!



carteki wrote:SMS - you're too kind ...

farlene wrote:I asked a very simple question so if there's anyone out there kind enough to help me out that would be great.

I haven't an inkling what PADI / whatever else that has been said means hence the request for help.


You haven't bothered to even do a simple web search then.

I've searched the forums and no one has talked about scuba lately.


Actually, I answered a question on diving yesterday....

2. Anyone else interested?


This seems to contradict the start of your post... where you said ...

"Count me in..." or "i'm interested" does not count.

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Postby farlene » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 3:42 pm

@Poodlek - have you checked the other threads in the forum?
Be very careful with what you ask, you might get bitch slapped. hell i just did for asking a very simple question.



poodlek wrote:I've been meaning to ask you guys about this. I was never much interested in diving until I heard y'all talking about it. As a kid/teenager I took lots of swimming lessons, and in the more advanced classes we did dives in the pool up to maybe 5m and the pressure in my ears was extremely painful. As we were just going down to grab rubber rings for lifesaving type exercises, it didn't have too many positive aspects to balance out the pain so I've never considered it again until now. My question: is this normal to experience pain at a relatively shallow depth? During my teens I had chronic sinus infections so I suspect this may have had something to do with the pain. Do some people have ear/eustachian anatomy ill suited to diving, or can this be overcome?

**Apologies if this is all very ignorant sounding :-P

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 3:57 pm

farlene wrote:@Poodlek - have you checked the other threads in the forum?
Be very careful with what you ask, you might get bitch slapped. hell i just did for asking a very simple question.




It's ok, I have my big girl panties on, I can handle it. :wink:

In fact, I have not read a single other thread about diving, except the one where ecurelix and SMS had it out about swimming skills, and that was ages ago. I took a stab that my question about some folks having more trouble with pressure equalization in the ears/sinus as not being a common one. Some interesting links that SMS posted though. A great starting place.

I'm wondering now, whether I should bother signing up for lessons before or after my septoplasty. Should I ask that question in the diving forum or the PS subforum? :lol:
Scratch that, I'll put it in my signature :-D

Seriously though, ENT recommended (just yesterday) I get my septum fixed to alleviate my problems with chronic sinusitis. I was thinking I'd wait until I get back to Canada so I don't have to pay for it. Is diving a silly hobby to take up in the mean time, or will these techniques I've read about (in SMS's helpful scuba links) likely alleviate any pressure problems?

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 4:28 pm

poodlek wrote:
farlene wrote:@Poodlek - have you checked the other threads in the forum?
Be very careful with what you ask, you might get bitch slapped. hell i just did for asking a very simple question.




It's ok, I have my big girl panties on, I can handle it. :wink:

In fact, I have not read a single other thread about diving, except the one where ecurelix and SMS had it out about swimming skills, and that was ages ago. I took a stab that my question about some folks having more trouble with pressure equalization in the ears/sinus as not being a common one. Some interesting links that SMS posted though. A great starting place.

I'm wondering now, whether I should bother signing up for lessons before or after my septoplasty. Should I ask that question in the diving forum or the PS subforum? :lol:
Scratch that, I'll put it in my signature :-D

Seriously though, ENT recommended (just yesterday) I get my septum fixed to alleviate my problems with chronic sinusitis. I was thinking I'd wait until I get back to Canada so I don't have to pay for it. Is diving a silly hobby to take up in the mean time, or will these techniques I've read about (in SMS's helpful scuba links) likely alleviate any pressure problems?


Generally, the discomfort can be countered by swallowing or blowing out through pinched nose etc as you descend (but only up to few metres down though). Not sure how bad is your sinus condition (but it sounds bad from your description) so these tips may or may not work depending on each individual. I was also in lifesaving training so I get what you mean by these drills.

Haven't got mine but been itching to get it (all my lifeguard friends already has one all the way to OW). Hope your doctor will give you an OK for it some time :)

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Postby farlene » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 4:41 pm

@ lynx > thanks. now it's got me thinking if i'm cut out for diving. it is advisable to get myself checked out before i sign up for lessons?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 4:59 pm

I've been a diver for 45 years and I still blow and go. Swallowing just doesn't cut it all the time for me. You will need to equalize pressure your ears all the way down to your bottom depth. I use the nose pinch as well. But never blow forcefully as you can do serious damage. Instead, stop your descent, and go back up until the pressure is reduced and then try to equalize again. Never gamble. Normally your ears will equalize automatically on the way up (but reverse squeezes are known to happen occasionally as well. This can happen if you have the flu or have managed to somehow get air under a filling that cannot escape on the way back up. It can actually pop the tooth filling or like what happened to me, split the tooth vertically from root to crown. It's rare, but it can happen.

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Postby carteki » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 7:39 pm

@ Poodledek - I can't say what your experience will be like. Equalising the pressure in your ears when diving is way easier than in a swimming pool because there is air flowing inside the body. I have trouble equalising, but it hasn't stopped me (except once). You do learn skills - swallowing is about the only thing that works for me - on how to overcome it, but each person is different. Usually once I'm below 10m then my ears are okay - but as SMS says you can experience it at all depths.

My suggestion is to do a "discover dive" if you're on holiday in a diving location. Tell the instructor about your ears and they'll do some pool skills with you and then you'll go on a simple dive just to experience what it is like.
I know a couple dive instructors here that could let you do a pool dive, but as the pool is only 2m deep its unlikely to be much use :(

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Postby poodlek » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 7:58 pm

carteki wrote:@ Poodledek - I can't say what your experience will be like. Equalising the pressure in your ears when diving is way easier than in a swimming pool because there is air flowing inside the body. I have trouble equalising, but it hasn't stopped me (except once). You do learn skills - swallowing is about the only thing that works for me - on how to overcome it, but each person is different. Usually once I'm below 10m then my ears are okay - but as SMS says you can experience it at all depths.

My suggestion is to do a "discover dive" if you're on holiday in a diving location. Tell the instructor about your ears and they'll do some pool skills with you and then you'll go on a simple dive just to experience what it is like.
I know a couple dive instructors here that could let you do a pool dive, but as the pool is only 2m deep its unlikely to be much use :(


This is helpful and encouraging, thank you! :-)

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 8:11 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I feel sooooo bad. I've only got a NAUI "Basic Diver" rating. :cool:

Of course I got in in 1976 an worked as a commercial diver as well from the mid '70s to the early /90s. I've been scuba diving since around 1965 till today. I've probably done most of the different types of diving that you can get rated for (the big exception being technical diving on scuba). Plus I was a certified blaster as well (federal license). Seems like organizations like PADI are only in it to see how much they can dive into your pockets. You can have it. My NAUI certification has served me well for 35 years. :wink:


Ahoy there Cap'n :)

PADI are a successful commercial organisation, of that there is no doubt. But they are also very innovative and have built the brand. Without PADI there would be a lot less people diving. Their ethos of 'Dive today' was before it's time and what a lot of holiday/leisure divers want.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 8:22 pm

JR8 wrote:Ahoy there Cap'n :)

PADI are a successful commercial organisation, of that there is no doubt. But they are also very innovative and have built the brand. Without PADI there would be a lot less people diving. Their ethos of 'Dive today' was before it's time and what a lot of holiday/leisure divers want.


I didn't mean to step on yer toes, mate. BUT, I'm not too sure that is a good thing. Especially some of the cowboys I've seen in the waters around the world. :-|

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 8:35 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
JR8 wrote:
I didn't mean to step on yer toes, mate. BUT, I'm not too sure that is a good thing. Especially some of the cowboys I've seen in the waters around the world. :-|


Fire away, ain't stepping on nothing buddy!

Well yes and no. Yes there are badly trained divers who should not have been qualified, or still be allowed to dive. But then there are plenty of people who are good divers, who would never have had the will, time, or means to sit in some shitty damp and cold classroom in the UK over six months getting their entry-level BSAC cert (just an an example).

p.s. I'm reminded of one days diving in Egypt. BSAC regard themselves as far superior to PADI. Well, cut a long story short one of the biggest ar$es I've dived with was a BSAC Advanced Instructor (no less). I suppose the fact he had 'BSAC Advanced Instructor #365 [or whatever] all over every piece of his kit should have warned me. There are muppets at all levels, from all agencies...

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 9:08 pm

Poodle

There have been several threads on diving. Maybe try and search keywords like PADI, Diving, SCUBA, Open Water, Tioman, Phuket, Perhentian?

The pressure change from the surface to just 5m is substantial, in fact 50%! So getting ear-squeeze is par for the course. If you have swimming goggles on you cannot equalise like you can with a mask with an enclosed nose-space.

The inner ear (in which the pressure change causes the pain) is a bit like a system that usually only requires manual intervention one-way. That is, as you go down you need to help equalise the pressure by (typically) blowing against your pinched nose. If you’re doing a dive and starting going straight to say 30m, you’d hold your nose the whole way down and blow (‘valsalva’) say every few metres, but it is the first 10m that matter most. On the way up, the pressure releases from your ear through your Eustachian tubes and it can usually do this automatically without intervention of any kind. Diving while congested is not going to assist the latter though.

So experiencing pain in shallow depths is to be expected if you’re skin-diving and either not wearing an enclosed mask, and/or not equalising using nose pinch/blows.

Sinusitis is not great if you’re a diver, as it can cause problems equalising ears, and for various reasons you should not be diving whilst on medication. From the sounds of it if I were you it might be worth waiting until you’ve had your procedure done; there’ll just be more certainty. There is nothing worse than having a dive trip coming up and then being hit with a cold (and congestion) right when you are departing, $-ugh!

But in the meantime you can get started on the theory if you like! :-D You can do the theory in class ‘at home’, and the qualifying dives on holiday. It is called a referral course. Or PADI now have means by which you can do all the theory online via e-learning (hey SMS do NAUI offer this ;))

p.s. Final thought, if you’re really concerned re: your ears then you can simply have a specific dive medical done. It is not that esoteric, in fact our GP in the heartlands HDB estate behind us offered them.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 9:31 pm

JR8 wrote:Or PADI now have means by which you can do all the theory online via e-learning (hey SMS do NAUI offer this ;)


I have no idea, but it sound like PADI is getting set up for sub-continental divers with Masters degrees. :lol: Another money spinner. Bet they'll be good divers. :roll: ..... "Hey mate, can ya send me the crib sheets or the 10 year's questions? It's okay, I'm a good at marketing so I'll just talk my way through it, yeah?! :) Can't swim a lick, but like all sub-continental peoples we learned early how to walk on the bottom of the Ganges & how to avoid dead water buffalo"......

What does NAUI offer? Don't have a clue. I've not been in contact with NAUI for 35 years. Whether they are any good today or not I have no idea. But I do know that in the mid 70's they were way, way better than PADI. Problem is, they probably stayed professional instead of going commercial. From what I've seen it's pretty obvious, for the majority, you can't have both. Kinda like Microsoft, they are the largest, but defo not the best. :P

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 9:45 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: Kinda like Microsoft, they are the largest, but defo not the best. :P


LOL!
Reminds me of one time in Tioman last year. Three guys from Bangalore arrived to do their Open Water. They'd flown over for 10 days holiday especially.

In the two days before the start of their course they sort of stood around in the shallows in front of the dive centre, or sort of floated face down (mask/snorkel on), then suddenly stood up every ten seconds. This went on and on, and we all looked on rather bemused.

Well, it turned out that none of them could swim. So, they just about managed to get themselves hauled around on a DSD ('try dive'), and that I'm afraid was that... the instructors schedule was suddenly completely full!

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Postby carteki » Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:06 pm

PADI - NAUI - SDI - SSI ... Its a debate that I've had on numerous occasions and while NAUI seems to be considered technically the best open water course, if you get a crap instructor - well - the best material in the world won't help and a good instructor will teach you stuff that is not included in the material.


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