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Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

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icislab
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Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby icislab » Sat, 26 Nov 2011 2:48 am

I read a lot of topic here carefully. Now I have some questions:
my wife and me are both SG citizen and worked in US now.
We will have kids soon in US.
If our kids are given birth in US, they will be US citizen, or we can choose dual citizenship for them before 21.
but because there is no way to keep dual citizenship after their 21, and if they renounce their SG citizen at that moment, and later will face big problem to work/study in Singapore.

My wife and me love Singapore very much, will be back to Singapore to enjoy our life after a few years. But we don't want to limit our kids' choice (I am ok with NS, I think it is great experience for a boy, but I am not sure what my son will think about it even I will recommend it to them).

Generally our questions is:
1, if we don't register our son as Singapore citizen, will he automatically be given the Singapore Citizen? they won't have dual citizenship from the beginning.
2, If we don't register their Singapore citizen from the beginning, will they face any problem later when they apply EP/SP/LTSV/PR/Citizen by themselves after they go to 21 (so they can make their own decision at any later time, don't need to be forced happen at year 21). Will they still in blacklist?

The thread:
ftopic81097.html
really surprise me, does it mean my kids don't have choice on their nationality by themselves later?

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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 26 Nov 2011 3:52 am

icislab wrote:I read a lot of topic here carefully. Now I have some questions:
my wife and me are both SG citizen and worked in US now.
We will have kids soon in US.
If our kids are given birth in US, they will be US citizen, or we can choose dual citizenship for them before 21.
but because there is no way to keep dual citizenship after their 21, and if they renounce their SG citizen at that moment, and later will face big problem to work/study in Singapore.

My wife and me love Singapore very much, will be back to Singapore to enjoy our life after a few years. But we don't want to limit our kids' choice (I am ok with NS, I think it is great experience for a boy, but I am not sure what my son will think about it even I will recommend it to them).

Generally our questions is:
1, if we don't register our son as Singapore citizen, will he automatically be given the Singapore Citizen? they won't have dual citizenship from the beginning.

NO.

2, If we don't register their Singapore citizen from the beginning, will they face any problem later when they apply EP/SP/LTSV/PR/Citizen by themselves after they go to 21 (so they can make their own decision at any later time, don't need to be forced happen at year 21). Will they still in blacklist?

All application for this group will be on the general roll. It will be on their own merits. It may or may not affect their application . Who knows.

The thread:
ftopic81097.html
really surprise me, does it mean my kids don't have choice on their nationality by themselves later?


I was privilege to that issue. Nope, does not concern you
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

icislab
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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby icislab » Sat, 26 Nov 2011 4:38 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
icislab wrote:I read a lot of topic here carefully. Now I have some questions:
my wife and me are both SG citizen and worked in US now.
We will have kids soon in US.
If our kids are given birth in US, they will be US citizen, or we can choose dual citizenship for them before 21.
but because there is no way to keep dual citizenship after their 21, and if they renounce their SG citizen at that moment, and later will face big problem to work/study in Singapore.

My wife and me love Singapore very much, will be back to Singapore to enjoy our life after a few years. But we don't want to limit our kids' choice (I am ok with NS, I think it is great experience for a boy, but I am not sure what my son will think about it even I will recommend it to them).

Generally our questions is:
1, if we don't register our son as Singapore citizen, will he automatically be given the Singapore Citizen? they won't have dual citizenship from the beginning.

NO.

2, If we don't register their Singapore citizen from the beginning, will they face any problem later when they apply EP/SP/LTSV/PR/Citizen by themselves after they go to 21 (so they can make their own decision at any later time, don't need to be forced happen at year 21). Will they still in blacklist?

All application for this group will be on the general roll. It will be on their own merits. It may or may not affect their application . Who knows.

The thread:
ftopic81097.html
really surprise me, does it mean my kids don't have choice on their nationality by themselves later?


I was privilege to that issue. Nope, does not concern you


So there will not have any automatically Singapore Citizenship, am I right? If I have a son and I won't register his Singapore Citizenship, then if later I go back to Singapore, he can be treated a purely foreigner or the gov will force to grant his Singapore Citizen to force him to go NS (as I say, I don't mind my son go for NS, but I hope it should be his decision/willingness, not me or Singapore Gov).

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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 26 Nov 2011 1:02 pm

icislab wrote:So there will not have any automatically Singapore Citizenship, am I right? If I have a son and I won't register his Singapore Citizenship, then if later I go back to Singapore, he can be treated a purely foreigner or the gov will force to grant his Singapore Citizen to force him to go NS (as I say, I don't mind my son go for NS, but I hope it should be his decision/willingness, not me or Singapore Gov).


If you were to go to ICA website, You have the privilege to have your child attaining dual citizenship when the child is born overseas from Singapore Parent Descent. Once you have the SG citizenship you may or may not choose to apply SG PP if you desire OR just a Right of Entry Stamp on the child foreign PP. The child will have equal benefits and opportunities like the local children born in SG as explained in the guideline.
If you chose otherwise and remain as status quo, that is fine too but the child will be treated as foreign student if you chose to have the child educated here and will not enjoy the same benefits as the local.
The crux of the matter when the child turns 21 as he has to renounce one of the other which can be detrimental to the child future.
No, the Gahmen cannot force you to take SG citizenship, you have to apply on the first year when the child is born , if you register later than that a host of other documents need to be supplemented which can be a real pain.
Whether the child decides to serve or not or renounce or not , this you have to think carefully
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby icislab » Tue, 06 Dec 2011 6:04 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
icislab wrote:So there will not have any automatically Singapore Citizenship, am I right? If I have a son and I won't register his Singapore Citizenship, then if later I go back to Singapore, he can be treated a purely foreigner or the gov will force to grant his Singapore Citizen to force him to go NS (as I say, I don't mind my son go for NS, but I hope it should be his decision/willingness, not me or Singapore Gov).


If you were to go to ICA website, You have the privilege to have your child attaining dual citizenship when the child is born overseas from Singapore Parent Descent. Once you have the SG citizenship you may or may not choose to apply SG PP if you desire OR just a Right of Entry Stamp on the child foreign PP. The child will have equal benefits and opportunities like the local children born in SG as explained in the guideline.
If you chose otherwise and remain as status quo, that is fine too but the child will be treated as foreign student if you chose to have the child educated here and will not enjoy the same benefits as the local.
The crux of the matter when the child turns 21 as he has to renounce one of the other which can be detrimental to the child future.
No, the Gahmen cannot force you to take SG citizenship, you have to apply on the first year when the child is born , if you register later than that a host of other documents need to be supplemented which can be a real pain.
Whether the child decides to serve or not or renounce or not , this you have to think carefully


Dear MS, thanks very much for your advice.
My concern is if I apply the dual citizenship for my kids, they must to make the decision on their age 21, I think it is too early for them, because if they renounce Singapore citizenship and they won't be able to get them back later (same for their US citizen), or even just PR.
For myself, I want to postpone this and let them make the decision fully by themselves when they really know what they want.
So if I choose to remain as status quo, will my kids be treated differently as other foreigners if they want to apply Singapore PR/Citizen fully based on their own conditions after 20 years?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 Dec 2011 6:51 am

The odds are that they will be refused as it will have been obvious to the gahmen that the parents deliberated did not get them citizenship at birth in order to defraud the government. So, it's doubtful that they will ever be granted PR or citizenship. Depending on their qualifications, though, they will be able to come here and work on employment passes as long as they qualify, at that time. You are burning some of your child's bridges long before he even decides whether he wants to burn them or not.

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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 06 Dec 2011 7:00 am

icislab wrote:Dear MS, thanks very much for your advice.
My concern is if I apply the dual citizenship for my kids, they must to make the decision on their age 21, I think it is too early for them, because if they renounce Singapore citizenship and they won't be able to get them back later (same for their US citizen), or even just PR.
For myself, I want to postpone this and let them make the decision fully by themselves when they really know what they want.
So if I choose to remain as status quo, will my kids be treated differently as other foreigners if they want to apply Singapore PR/Citizen fully based on their own conditions after 20 years?


I cannot ascertain for sure but Taxico , one the regulars here, did just that, he renounce Us citizenship while serving the SG NS , got married to local wife and regain his US citizen back. I did spoke to a few US Immigration lawyers about this and they said it is possible if the child is born in US but it has to be done before 33 years of age(Not sure as I cannot confirm). Another issue will be perjury when reapplying the SG PP when expires if you chose to go down this route.
Of course for SG citizenship it is really cut and dry deal. I myself did just that for my kids(Big Boys and Girls now) We renounce our SG citizenship years ago but we prepared them and had open discussion from as young as we can remember. By 13 years of age once we got EP for them while studying in OZ, we applied deferment till 21 which was approve. In that guideline if for some reason the child decided to return to SG and serve NS before the age of 21 he can do so with no penalty or fine incur. We let them decide . By fate two of my boys were offered scholarship in UK and US and they decided that they want to pursue their dreams. My eldest is doing his PHD in UK now and my second son is in US doing his Masters while my two daughters are in Melbourne in the Uni here. After being away from SG for many years the desire to go back for my family diminished as time goes by.
If they chose not to apply dual citizenship and intend to apply EP to agin employment here with the aspiration to gain PR or SG citizenship , they will be treated the same as other applicants. The applications require the applicant to state their family trees and it can go either way on the application
Do not worry your children will be able to understand all these. What we do is to provide informed decisions for you to decide.
BTW if you are under gahmen scholar or bond or white horse category all bets is off.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby icislab » Thu, 08 Dec 2011 2:17 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
icislab wrote:Dear MS, thanks very much for your advice.
My concern is if I apply the dual citizenship for my kids, they must to make the decision on their age 21, I think it is too early for them, because if they renounce Singapore citizenship and they won't be able to get them back later (same for their US citizen), or even just PR.
For myself, I want to postpone this and let them make the decision fully by themselves when they really know what they want.
So if I choose to remain as status quo, will my kids be treated differently as other foreigners if they want to apply Singapore PR/Citizen fully based on their own conditions after 20 years?


I cannot ascertain for sure but Taxico , one the regulars here, did just that, he renounce Us citizenship while serving the SG NS , got married to local wife and regain his US citizen back. I did spoke to a few US Immigration lawyers about this and they said it is possible if the child is born in US but it has to be done before 33 years of age(Not sure as I cannot confirm). Another issue will be perjury when reapplying the SG PP when expires if you chose to go down this route.
Of course for SG citizenship it is really cut and dry deal. I myself did just that for my kids(Big Boys and Girls now) We renounce our SG citizenship years ago but we prepared them and had open discussion from as young as we can remember. By 13 years of age once we got EP for them while studying in OZ, we applied deferment till 21 which was approve. In that guideline if for some reason the child decided to return to SG and serve NS before the age of 21 he can do so with no penalty or fine incur. We let them decide . By fate two of my boys were offered scholarship in UK and US and they decided that they want to pursue their dreams. My eldest is doing his PHD in UK now and my second son is in US doing his Masters while my two daughters are in Melbourne in the Uni here. After being away from SG for many years the desire to go back for my family diminished as time goes by.
If they chose not to apply dual citizenship and intend to apply EP to agin employment here with the aspiration to gain PR or SG citizenship , they will be treated the same as other applicants. The applications require the applicant to state their family trees and it can go either way on the application
Do not worry your children will be able to understand all these. What we do is to provide informed decisions for you to decide.
BTW if you are under gahmen scholar or bond or white horse category all bets is off.


MS, your advice is super helpful to me.
Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Any bad impact on no applying SG citizen for my kids

Postby taxico » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:09 am

icislab wrote:My concern is if I apply the dual citizenship for my kids, they must to make the decision on their age 21, I think it is too early for them, because if they renounce Singapore citizenship and they won't be able to get them back later (same for their US citizen), or even just PR.

For myself, I want to postpone this and let them make the decision fully by themselves when they really know what they want...


US considers 18, not 21, as the age of adulthood, so this may cause some problems especially most NSFs are in their 20s when they've finished NS.

when a US citizen renounces (it's not a mail-in application), a document will be issued and official notes will be taken as to why you are doing so. and in some/most cases, they may invite you to apply before/by a certain date and give you some advice as to what to do after NS.

because of the way the US laws were made/tested (the 14th amendment and wong kim ark v USA) and the jus soli principle, if someone was born in the US, citizenship can be re-obtained after renunciation - especially for reasons of compulsory military conscription in the case of a dual national US citizen.

it is best to speak to the state dept or your local embassy or, as i did, an immigration attorney. IMO, the earlier your child renounces their US citizenship, the less hassle it is later when they apply to get it back.

if i knew what i know now, i (personally, i'm not saying this is what you should do) would have renounced when i was 16.5 and then applied to obtain my US citizenship again while i was in NS as a singaporean.

postponing it is not the answer - the older the guy, the less likely they would want to voluntarily serve NS in singapore. NS is not a bad thing and it's 2 years (1 year 10 months if his fitness is good) is a small price to pay to avoid all the customs and immigration hassles in future.

good luck.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 8:37 am

Taxico, thank you for clarifying on this matter
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