Singapore Expats Forum

question

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
despagnac
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu, 11 Mar 2010
Location: France

question

Postby despagnac » Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:12 pm

question
Last edited by despagnac on Wed, 11 Jan 2012 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:36 pm

Did you bother to read the Explanatory Notes accompanying the PR application BEFORE you submitted the application? I ask, because it would seem that people don't tend to read things and than come here asking questions that don't need answering as the application shouldn't have been submitted in the first place.

The following taken from the Explanatory Notes; Form EP4.pdf

(e) Official marriage certificate, if applicable
(f) Birth certificate, official household census list or family register, where applicable.
(g) Testimonials from previous employer stating the nature and duration of employment and also the last drawn basic salary
(h) Payslips for the last 6 months and Income Tax Notices of Assessment for the last 3 years.


What does the blue highlighted (h) suggest to you? Aside from the fact that you didn't follow instructions. Forget what you heard or might have been told. The form was released in July 2011, fully a month before your application for PR.

What can you do? Follow directions for a start. If you submit a second time before you have the required time in grade here, you are just confirming what they already know. What's that? They are probably asking themselves, "Do we need more people here that cannot follow simple directions?" Which is probably why they didn't invite you to apply again at a later date......

despagnac
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu, 11 Mar 2010
Location: France

Postby despagnac » Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:37 pm

Dear Sundaymorningstaple, thank you very much for the explanation.

Part of the reason we applied in the first place was because a friend of ours who is in the same situation as us ( other than they have 2 girls instead of 2 boys) got their approval 20 months after they arrived in Singapore ( July 2011), Maybe you are right in the sense that the criteria for the tax assessment may well have changed in July 2011 just before we applied( not sure as I don't have a copy that was issued before that date, so can't compare the differences).

We expect the immigration officers are intelligent individuals who can asses each case on their own merits, they don't act like computers, rejecting something for very minor issues. After all, if your theory was correct, they may well be better off putting the following information on their PR home page under eligibility on MOM website saying: ' Any employment pass holders don't bother to apply unless you have been here for more than 3 years', this way, they will reduce a huge amount of application from being submitted in the first place.

Although I appreciate the fact that you have taken time to reply to me but I can't help noticing your level of unnecessary sarcasm. You may have best of intention in helping people, but your sarcasm may well just diminished people's appreciation of your comments.

My maid can follow simple directions very well, but does that make her a better applicant for a PR application? Probably NOT.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 21 Nov 2011 1:23 pm

Who's to say? :wink:

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 21 Nov 2011 1:45 pm

If you are all that committed to Singapore, you would already know that all schools follow the same curriculum so it's not a necessity to get the kids into a "good" school. Even if you get PR, there is no guarantee that you can accomplish that.

Additionally, a point I didn't raise the 1st time but you provided an opening this time - is your "friend's" family the same ethnic makeup? Educational History the same? Because, unless your family is a clone of your friend's, then different sets of boxes get ticked. We are not privy to those internal check lists. All we have is anecdotal evidence to use to make judgment calls. Since the May GE they have been changing their interpretation of the guidelines almost monthly.

I often wonder why any Caucasian would apply for PR to settle down permanently in Singapore. Of course, not all take up PR with the intent to settle down permanently but just do so for the benefits while they are here. The government realizes that and unless a Caucasian is either a senior in the financial sector (say 400K upwards) or has invested heavily into a business in Singapore, then the odds of them actually wanting to resettle here permanently is all smoke & mirrors. Therefore, they are seriously cutting back on the PR being so freely given out.

As far as immigration officers being intelligent, you are correct. They are, frankly, a whole lot smarter that you think they are. They have seen just about every ruse possible and very little gets by them.

Another thing, the "written" rules haven't changed all that much. What has changed is the interpretation of those rules. ICA was very lax prior to the GE, deliberately so, now, they are just tightening up on the criteria and reducing the flexibility range. ICA will "always" hold all the cards closely to their chest and have the upper hand.

At 64, I honestly don't give a hoot about appreciation one way or the other. How do you know what I said was or wasn't true? :-k

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 21 Nov 2011 7:18 pm

despagnac wrote:We expect the immigration officers are intelligent individuals who can asses each case on their own merits, they don't act like computers, rejecting something for very minor issues. After all, if your theory was correct, they may well be better off putting the following information on their PR home page under eligibility on MOM website saying: ' Any employment pass holders don't bother to apply unless you have been here for more than 3 years', this way, they will reduce a huge amount of application from being submitted in the first place.


You sound angry, but shooting the messenger is not going to help.

User avatar
BillyB
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Location: My laptop

Postby BillyB » Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:37 pm

despagnac wrote:Dear Sundaymorningstaple, thank you very much for the explanation.

Part of the reason we applied in the first place was because a friend of ours who is in the same situation as us ( other than they have 2 girls instead of 2 boys) got their approval 20 months after they arrived in Singapore ( July 2011), Maybe you are right in the sense that the criteria for the tax assessment may well have changed in July 2011 just before we applied( not sure as I don't have a copy that was issued before that date, so can't compare the differences).

We expect the immigration officers are intelligent individuals who can asses each case on their own merits, they don't act like computers, rejecting something for very minor issues. After all, if your theory was correct, they may well be better off putting the following information on their PR home page under eligibility on MOM website saying: ' Any employment pass holders don't bother to apply unless you have been here for more than 3 years', this way, they will reduce a huge amount of application from being submitted in the first place.

Although I appreciate the fact that you have taken time to reply to me but I can't help noticing your level of unnecessary sarcasm. You may have best of intention in helping people, but your sarcasm may well just diminished people's appreciation of your comments.

My maid can follow simple directions very well, but does that make her a better applicant for a PR application? Probably NOT.


That IS the criteria for PR applications....there might be exceptions, but go off what the Government are stating and you won't go wrong or get disappointed.

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 22 Nov 2011 3:12 am

@despagnac

Maybe I can enlighten you with another views on how ICA select and approve PR applicants. These are rough guides and changes every so often but the basics are there. We are talking on specific PR applicants with no family ties albeit local or PR spouse These are the general roll

1. Business or minimum 5 million in SG infrastructure or MNC set up under Spring or EDB
2. Investor in Government GLC or VC or Spring or Bio Tech
3. Pass Holders P1, P2 Q, S then WP in descending order
4. Education
5. Length of stay or work in SG and tax return
6. Race
7. Applicants application either in a family or single
8. Family tree

Now from your infos and not degrading and humiliating you in any form whatsoever, you are Chinese but are you holding a second citizenship from another country ?
What about your kids dual citizenship?
Your kids are young, you do have time on your side. Do not be over excited and join the mad rush "Kiasuism" like the locals.
If you feel that you want to have SG Education instill in your kids , have patience and keep on applying after 2 years.
The PR selection throws an open net to all would be applicants. From there the above guidelines are selected, rinse and re vetted with another set of criterias .
The forms in the website and on hard copy is not specific in details and it was meant to be that way.
PR application in SG is not like in Brit,Canada, OZ and NZ where the Immigration Department basically helps you to give you every opportunities to become PR by revealing your shortcomings. Not IN SINGAPORE.
Does these satisfy your inquiry ?
Does these makes you angry?
Who wouldn't? But this is Singapore , The Land of THE "FINE" Opportunities.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 22 Nov 2011 3:50 am

Here is another food for thought

Singapore PR Rejected? Appeal or not?
If your Singapore PR (Permanent Residency) is rejected recently, you are not alone. Singapore PR is an important to immigrate to Singapore and rejection is a heart breaking experience after long months of waiting and maybe witnessing less qualified people getting approval. But nowadays it is tough to get Singapore PR. Since 2009, fewer applications for Singapore PR and Singapore Citizenship are approved.

This is because in late 2009, Singapore Government decided to tighten the criteria for PR and citizenship, to better manage the inflow of foreigners. And they immediately took action! In 2008, 79,200 Singapore PR applications were approved. PR approval numbers sharply dropped down to 59,500 in 2009. This trend continued in 2010 and The Government granted only 29,265 permanent residents, more than a 50% drop compared to 2009. It is almost certain that this trend will continue in 2011 Singapore PR applications.

2010 numbers point to the lowest PR intake in at least five years:

The sharp drop in PRs is a result of the tightening of immigration policy in 2009 to better manage the inflow and quality of new immigrants, said Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng on Monday.

A policy change that drew clearer distinctions between the benefits citizens and PRs enjoy also 'underlines our principle that Singaporeans will enjoy priority over non-citizens', he said at the Singapore Perspectives 2011 conference organised by the Institute of Policy Studies.


Another one.

Singapore Permanent Residency is one of the most important steps to immigrate to Singapore. As we have covered recently it is relatively hard to get Singapore PR since 2009 compared to 2006 - 2008 period and a lot of PR applications are rejected due to effort of the government to control/reduce the intake of foreigners. From the chart below you can see that the Singapore PR approval numbers significantly fell to 29,265 approvals in 2010 from heights of 2008. This is a 63% drop in approvals compared to 2008.

When is the best time to apply Singapore PR? For individuals, the best recommended time to apply for Singapore Permanent Residency is after 2 years of employment in Singapore. I believe it is best to complete 2 full years as tax resident and apply PR after second tax notification from IRAS (notification about the amount of tax you will pay based on your declaration). Documents from IRAS about your individual income tax payments are very valuable documents which shows solid/monetary contributions to Singapore and also shows that you are a stable tax resident of Singapore. An application before 2 years of employment can still get approval if the applicant has good qualities in terms of education, employment, salary, family but do not forget, less than 2 years of employment here will work against your qualifications and risk an approval by putting you behind the people with the same qualifications but more employment history in Singapore.

Number of Singapore PRs approved per year (2001 - 2010)
For individuals whose Singapore PR is rejected previously, the best time to apply for Singapore PR is after waiting for the stated period in the rejection letter. For example if ICA requested you to apply 2 years later, they mean it and it is best to wait for 2 years. If in the rejection letter, ICA does not mention any date to reapply, the shortest period to reapply after rejection letter date is 6 months. Unfortunately, some people do not take this notice seriously and reapply Singapore PR after waiting less than the stated period.
So 2011 also does not look like the best year to apply for PR. This does not mean you should not apply if you meet all minimum criteria, have good qualifications and - more important -you really plan to permanently reside in Singapore. This just means that those days of PR approval with relatively loose criteria has long gone and the best time to apply for PR is a date after you make sure that very less works against your application. So if you have room for improvement (i.e. only worked here 1 year, Employment Pass is Q Type, etc) improve first as much as you can then apply. You will have more chance and you will probably wait less to get your PR.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

yibs
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue, 06 Dec 2011

Postby yibs » Wed, 07 Dec 2011 6:16 am

Mad Scientist wrote:@despagnac

Maybe I can enlighten you with another views on how ICA select and approve PR applicants. These are rough guides and changes every so often but the basics are there. We are talking on specific PR applicants with no family ties albeit local or PR spouse These are the general roll

1. Business or minimum 5 million in SG infrastructure or MNC set up under Spring or EDB
2. Investor in Government GLC or VC or Spring or Bio Tech
3. Pass Holders P1, P2 Q, S then WP in descending order
4. Education
5. Length of stay or work in SG and tax return
6. Race
7. Applicants application either in a family or single
8. Family tree

Now from your infos and not degrading and humiliating you in any form whatsoever, you are Chinese but are you holding a second citizenship from another country ?
What about your kids dual citizenship?
Your kids are young, you do have time on your side. Do not be over excited and join the mad rush "Kiasuism" like the locals.
If you feel that you want to have SG Education instill in your kids , have patience and keep on applying after 2 years.
The PR selection throws an open net to all would be applicants. From there the above guidelines are selected, rinse and re vetted with another set of criterias .
The forms in the website and on hard copy is not specific in details and it was meant to be that way.
PR application in SG is not like in Brit,Canada, OZ and NZ where the Immigration Department basically helps you to give you every opportunities to become PR by revealing your shortcomings. Not IN SINGAPORE.
Does these satisfy your inquiry ?
Does these makes you angry?
Who wouldn't? But this is Singapore , The Land of THE "FINE" Opportunities.


Just a quick question, is 'Testimonials from previous employer stating the the nature and duration of employment as well as salary' important?

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 07 Dec 2011 6:38 am

yibs wrote:Just a quick question, is 'Testimonials from previous employer stating the the nature and duration of employment as well as salary' important?


Yes and whatever that can tilt the balance towards you
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Suspension Notice Question
    by chaokeeng » Mon, 23 Sep 2013 9:39 pm » in Strictly Speaking
    15
    6260
    by bro75 View the latest post
    Thu, 26 Sep 2013 9:57 am
  • Moving personal belongings to Singapore - question re. DVDs
    by thefly » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 5:54 pm » in Relocating, Moving to Singapore
    2
    1802
    by katbh View the latest post
    Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:39 am
  • question regarding changing to new job
    by ehem8788 » Tue, 01 Oct 2013 9:55 pm » in Relocating, Moving to Singapore
    7
    2414
    by the lynx View the latest post
    Wed, 02 Oct 2013 7:40 pm
  • Another FDW question
    by Fortan » Mon, 21 Oct 2013 4:16 pm » in Staying, Living in Singapore
    3
    1758
    by PNGMK View the latest post
    Mon, 21 Oct 2013 5:43 pm
  • Another Question...
    by ShouldBeFun » Sat, 02 Nov 2013 3:31 am » in Relocating, Moving to Singapore
    17
    3789
    by JR8 View the latest post
    Sat, 30 Nov 2013 10:29 am

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests