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Why all the 'hatred' towards us 'foreigners'?

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Postby earthfriendly » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 1:55 am

Ahhhh SMS.... I see what you mean now. Just like Singaporeans who think most Philipinos work as maids. I have told them that in USA, I have never met a philipino maid. They work in all professions, some are nurses, store clerks, teachers etc..... And it really helps to open up their way of thinking. Some people tend to think within the box but if you show them other ideas/concepts exist outside of this little box, they are quite receptive.

When I was discussing my new home community (predominantly white) with my white friend, he mentioned that they may have certain notions about me and my family. A white man with a Singapore girl. It was a bit of a shocker and I don't know what to make of it or what that combination is supposed to mean :) . For me, we are just a normal family. I am who I am, and this yellow skin, black hair and dark eyes are what people see on the outside. It is just a housing, my core will be the same, regardless of how I look on the outside.

Yeah it is not fun to live with other people's stereotype idea of how you should think or behave. So, are they supposed to know me better than I, myself? And am I supposed to act like a "tiger mom"? Or do I have to work hard to prove to them I am not one. Let's just say that I am at the opposite spectrum of her and maybe even way out of the curve. There are just too many forces out there telling us how we should think and behave. This is especially hard for young kids with impressionable minds.

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 7:35 am

I don't think it is crap, but I also agree with ksl that it is not really any different than elsewhere. In Asia what makes it to appear different is the contrast as people are publicly less aggressive and confrontational. Living a few years in Holland, a country almost stereotypically labeled as a top tolerant place (at that time) I was always surprised by the amount of anti foreign sentiments among ordinary people. Every place with a significant number of foreigners have it and will have it. It is only how it surfaces that makes the difference.

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Postby BillyB » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 10:18 am

I partly agree, but I think what people don't understand is that the 'hello and smiles' you get in shops, lifts, bars, etc. are quite false. Then there'll be a well disguised 'ang moh, or Inidian, or non-Singaporean slur', whilst keeping a perfect smile'. The language barrier is the first problem. If you don't speak a Chinese dialect you'll have no idea it happens as it is THAT discreet.

In other Countires, there isn't necessarily the fakeness and you can feel the sentiment - in France they don't talk to you or are openly rude, they aren't fake - and it makes it much easier to detect and handle it how you choose.

I might sound like I'm exaggerating but the type of comments you get in Mandarin, Hokkien and Canton are absolutely disgusting, and usually always linked to money and status - 'Why is she shopping in here she can't afford it she is Malay', 'Wow, that filipina maid must be shagging the husband', 'the ang moh's are wrecking this Country'.

And in every single occurance when they get pulled up on it, they never once defend their actions - they become sheepish, red faced, walk off and completely lose their bottle, just like a typical coward.

You wonder where it all stems from.....

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Postby ankle » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 1:02 pm

I'm a singaporean and I've been lurking around this forum to understand what is happening on this side of the fence as I'm tired of reading locals putting the blame on FT/FW on almost every issues in the other forums.

Please be assured that not every singaporean is discreminate against the foreigners. There are singaporean who defended you guys in the other forums. :)

As a local, I felt that I have to do my part by explaining where does all these "hates" comes from.

For starters, pls understand that discremination doesn't happen overnight. It's accumulative over the years. Also, sometimes oppies use this as a tool to generate people's hate towards pap.

Now, to zoom down into details.

Why do we hate PRC?
Probably because of the culture difference, sometimes, PRC exhibit certain behaviors which annoys the local. ie, speaking loudly on the phone, being inconsiderate, having affairs with sg husbands and cheating money from the sg retired males. I know the last 2 isn't entirely their fault, but not everyone sees that.

Why do we hate other SEA nations (ie, pinoys, indonesian and etc)?
Actually, i don't hate these ppl. But i've noticed quite alot of singaporean blame them for taking away their jobs. I think the blame should be put on the employer for hiring cheap labour rather than anything else. Unfortunately, not everybody agree with me when I point that out.

Why do we hate the "ang mohs"?
Sometimes, the arrogancy that some of the ang mohs have exhibit could be rather annoying. Also, we tend to have high expectation of the ang mohs because they must be good to be paid that much. And when they failed to meet our expectations, we tend to speak ill of them probably out of jealousy and bitterness, thinking, "why is he/she in that position and earning that much when I could do it better?".

Why do we hate the Indians?
You know why, we know why and they probably pretend to know why. Do we need to say more about this? :P

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Postby orbita » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 1:30 pm

ankle wrote:
Why do we hate other SEA nations (ie, pinoys, indonesian and etc)?
Actually, i don't hate these ppl. But i've noticed quite alot of singaporean blame them for taking away their jobs. I think the blame should be put on the employer for hiring cheap labour rather than anything else. Unfortunately, not everybody agree with me when I point that out.


Not just jobs. In schools too. I think it's part of some Singaporeans thinking that they are "above" other SEA races. In NUS, Singaporeans students act very condescending towards their SEA peers, especially in freshman year, when the SEA students haven't yet been able to prove themselves.

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Postby BillyB » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 1:42 pm

ankle wrote:I'm a singaporean and I've been lurking around this forum to understand what is happening on this side of the fence as I'm tired of reading locals putting the blame on FT/FW on almost every issues in the other forums.

Please be assured that not every singaporean is discreminate against the foreigners. There are singaporean who defended you guys in the other forums. :)

As a local, I felt that I have to do my part by explaining where does all these "hates" comes from.

For starters, pls understand that discremination doesn't happen overnight. It's accumulative over the years. Also, sometimes oppies use this as a tool to generate people's hate towards pap.

Now, to zoom down into details.

Why do we hate PRC?
Probably because of the culture difference, sometimes, PRC exhibit certain behaviors which annoys the local. ie, speaking loudly on the phone, being inconsiderate, having affairs with sg husbands and cheating money from the sg retired males. I know the last 2 isn't entirely their fault, but not everyone sees that.

Why do we hate other SEA nations (ie, pinoys, indonesian and etc)?
Actually, i don't hate these ppl. But i've noticed quite alot of singaporean blame them for taking away their jobs. I think the blame should be put on the employer for hiring cheap labour rather than anything else. Unfortunately, not everybody agree with me when I point that out.

Why do we hate the "ang mohs"?
Sometimes, the arrogancy that some of the ang mohs have exhibit could be rather annoying. Also, we tend to have high expectation of the ang mohs because they must be good to be paid that much. And when they failed to meet our expectations, we tend to speak ill of them probably out of jealousy and bitterness, thinking, "why is he/she in that position and earning that much when I could do it better?".

Why do we hate the Indians?
You know why, we know why and they probably pretend to know why. Do we need to say more about this? :P


Ankle, despite your claims in your opening paragraph, you are almost a textbook example of the passive aggression / racism exhibited here.

Your comment on Indians is child-like and pathetic.

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Postby ankle » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 1:48 pm

BillyB wrote:
ankle wrote:I'm a singaporean and I've been lurking around this forum to understand what is happening on this side of the fence as I'm tired of reading locals putting the blame on FT/FW on almost every issues in the other forums.

Please be assured that not every singaporean is discreminate against the foreigners. There are singaporean who defended you guys in the other forums. :)

As a local, I felt that I have to do my part by explaining where does all these "hates" comes from.

For starters, pls understand that discremination doesn't happen overnight. It's accumulative over the years. Also, sometimes oppies use this as a tool to generate people's hate towards pap.

Now, to zoom down into details.

Why do we hate PRC?
Probably because of the culture difference, sometimes, PRC exhibit certain behaviors which annoys the local. ie, speaking loudly on the phone, being inconsiderate, having affairs with sg husbands and cheating money from the sg retired males. I know the last 2 isn't entirely their fault, but not everyone sees that.

Why do we hate other SEA nations (ie, pinoys, indonesian and etc)?
Actually, i don't hate these ppl. But i've noticed quite alot of singaporean blame them for taking away their jobs. I think the blame should be put on the employer for hiring cheap labour rather than anything else. Unfortunately, not everybody agree with me when I point that out.

Why do we hate the "ang mohs"?
Sometimes, the arrogancy that some of the ang mohs have exhibit could be rather annoying. Also, we tend to have high expectation of the ang mohs because they must be good to be paid that much. And when they failed to meet our expectations, we tend to speak ill of them probably out of jealousy and bitterness, thinking, "why is he/she in that position and earning that much when I could do it better?".

Why do we hate the Indians?
You know why, we know why and they probably pretend to know why. Do we need to say more about this? :P


Ankle, despite your claims in your opening paragraph, you are almost a textbook example of the passive aggression / racism exhibited here.

Your comment on Indians is child-like and pathetic.


not really... I've noticed the folks here are rather discreminated against Indians as well.

As for me, I have alot of terrible experiences working with Indians and I have heard many similar tales from my local friends as well. These are true personal experiences. I have chosen to make light of it instead of spelling it out here because I do not wish to evolve this into a flame war.

If you think otherwise, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. :)

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Postby ksl » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 1:54 pm

ankle wrote:I'm a singaporean and I've been lurking around this forum to understand what is happening on this side of the fence as I'm tired of reading locals putting the blame on FT/FW on almost every issues in the other forums.

Please be assured that not every singaporean is discreminate against the foreigners. There are singaporean who defended you guys in the other forums. :)

As a local, I felt that I have to do my part by explaining where does all these "hates" comes from.

For starters, pls understand that discremination doesn't happen overnight. It's accumulative over the years. Also, sometimes oppies use this as a tool to generate people's hate towards pap.


Now, to zoom down into details.

Why do we hate PRC?
Probably because of the culture difference, sometimes, PRC exhibit certain behaviors which annoys the local. ie, speaking loudly on the phone, being inconsiderate, having affairs with sg husbands and cheating money from the sg retired males. I know the last 2 isn't entirely their fault, but not everyone sees that.

Why do we hate other SEA nations (ie, pinoys, indonesian and etc)?
Actually, i don't hate these ppl. But i've noticed quite alot of singaporean blame them for taking away their jobs. I think the blame should be put on the employer for hiring cheap labour rather than anything else. Unfortunately, not everybody agree with me when I point that out.

Why do we hate the "ang mohs"?
Sometimes, the arrogancy that some of the ang mohs have exhibit could be rather annoying. Also, we tend to have high expectation of the ang mohs because they must be good to be paid that much. And when they failed to meet our expectations, we tend to speak ill of them probably out of jealousy and bitterness, thinking, "why is he/she in that position and earning that much when I could do it better?".

Why do we hate the Indians?
You know why, we know why and they probably pretend to know why. Do we need to say more about this? :P
Blast computer timed out and i lost the reply! No SMS it wasn't long, just that my typing speed and the new mackintosh isn't helping. Ankle we understand its a minority of people and parents are also not helping to teach their children polite manners. it's the same in Chav City Lancaaster UK.
The Mal Hussian case on our estate went on for years, he was a nice guy from Pakistan and i was quite a close friend of his, however the young thugs hated him, not because of his country origins, but because of his arrogance and attitude towards the children going in his shop. He was accusing them of stealing and searching them, saying what have you got in your pockets and stuff, that would work up any kids. The crap hit the fan with petrol bombs, gun shots from the local hoods, around 50 or 60 gathered nightly outside my home, to cause trouble. I helped to defend him on occasions and my house windows where smashed, every time I replaced them.

People where terrified and I cracked a few ankles with a pick axe handle as police wouldn't even come near the place out of fear! It really was worse than N/I at times without any backup, though the vigilante method was the only way at the time.

The local council paid the Pakistan guy over 150,000K to move away, property values dropped from 65K to zero. Found the piece I lost! I think most people with experience of the different languages and worldly travel that actually try to integrate understands from all parties involved, it is a minority and the way people are raised by their parents, so it cannot change over night, but it gradually gets more acceptable. My own housing estate in UK is just as bad when it comes to foreigners, to think 30 years ago, you would never see a foreigner, some are forced out of the area, others stand and fight the racial card and government resources ignore it! I lived with street riots on the doorstep for 18 years off and on.

The trouble makers are young thugs with no respect for anyone or anything, they should be carted off to the market square and shackled for a week, so all those passing can throw rotten eggs! They will soon think twice of anti social behaviour and racial slurs. There is plenty of arrogance everywhere you go, some people are just born to it, others just don't care, a total lack of respect for anyone even themselves.
Last edited by ksl on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 2:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby nutnut » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 1:57 pm

I think Ankle is right, I can be really arrogant sometimes and I can see why some people wouldn't like that, it's part of my sense of humour though, again, something that is not understood out side of my home land ;)

Thing is, I don't care what people think about me!
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Postby ankle » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 2:21 pm

nutnut wrote:I think Ankle is right, I can be really arrogant sometimes and I can see why some people wouldn't like that, it's part of my sense of humour though, again, something that is not understood out side of my home land ;)

Thing is, I don't care what people think about me!


Well, good for you that you doesn't care about other people's opinion. Ditto for me. In fact, I have this slogan, "Do I look like I freaking Care!!!" printed across my wallet... :P

All I could say is some asians do not really appreciate westerner's sense of humour. Especially when it involves "Face" and Ego.

I remembered I was in one of those day tour in a foreign land. While the whole bus was waiting for this singaporean family, the ang moh driver told us to clap when they board the bus which we did. This did not really goes well with that family. They became angry and sulk for the rest of the day. :oops:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 3:15 pm

ankle wrote:[
I remembered I was in one of those day tour in a foreign land. While the whole bus was waiting for this singaporean family, the ang moh driver told us to clap when they board the bus which we did. This did not really goes well with that family. They became angry and sulk for the rest of the day. :oops:


Bet they were on time after that. Sometimes, if you don't make a Singaporean "lose face" they will never change.

Good demonstration of that? Littering. They still throw their garbage all over their HDB estate with the teens the biggest culprits. Why? The only thing they understand here are fines. If they think they won't get caught, they throw even though a bin is less than 5 metres away. As a member of our RC I see this all the time. Why is that? They been trained to throw it on the ground or leave it on the tables cause they know the Foreign Worker estate cleaners will clean up after the pigs have left?

Without fines, nothing changes. Witness 33 years of courtesy campaigns. I've been here for 30 of them and there is no discernible difference between then and now. It's seems that the lack of courtesy, like myopia here, is a genetic defect so it's virtually impossible to teach you courtesy. Put fines and at least you can be trained using the Pavlovian response method.

:-|

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 3:18 pm

Ankle, are you old enough to remember when GCT was the Prime Minister? In one of his speeches he even commented about the same thing. His take? If every Singaporean doesn't confront the litterbug or inconsiderate/rude Singaporean about their behaviour, then they are just as guilty as the person doing it. Why? Because you are tacitly, by not saying anything, approving of their actions. This is from your previous Prime Minister while still the PM. So don't say it's purely a Western/AngMo viewpoint.

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Postby ankle » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 3:35 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ankle wrote:[
I remembered I was in one of those day tour in a foreign land. While the whole bus was waiting for this singaporean family, the ang moh driver told us to clap when they board the bus which we did. This did not really goes well with that family. They became angry and sulk for the rest of the day. :oops:


Bet they were on time after that. Sometimes, if you don't make a Singaporean "lose face" they will never change.

Good demonstration of that? Littering. They still throw their garbage all over their HDB estate with the teens the biggest culprits. Why? The only thing they understand here are fines. If they think they won't get caught, they throw even though a bin is less than 5 metres away. As a member of our RC I see this all the time. Why is that? They been trained to throw it on the ground or leave it on the tables cause they know the Foreign Worker estate cleaners will clean up after the pigs have left?

Without fines, nothing changes. Witness 33 years of courtesy campaigns. I've been here for 30 of them and there is no discernible difference between then and now. It's seems that the lack of courtesy, like myopia here, is a genetic defect so it's virtually impossible to teach you courtesy. Put fines and at least you can be trained using the Pavlovian response method.

:-|


The family refused to go down the bus since that stop... :(

yes, you're right regarding littering. But pls understand that most of the parents of our generations (I'm 30+) are not that well educated. Imo, that's one of the reasons why we have various campaigns to educate the younger nation on what our uneducated parents couldn't educate us. Whether campaigns are effective is a different issue altogether.

Could you see the differences when you compared singaporean nowadays and singaporean 20 yrs' ago?

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Postby ankle » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 3:44 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Ankle, are you old enough to remember when GCT was the Prime Minister? In one of his speeches he even commented about the same thing. His take? If every Singaporean doesn't confront the litterbug or inconsiderate/rude Singaporean about their behaviour, then they are just as guilty as the person doing it. Why? Because you are tacitly, by not saying anything, approving of their actions. This is from your previous Prime Minister while still the PM. So don't say it's purely a Western/AngMo viewpoint.


I'm old enough but too young to be interested in the singapore politics.

I do confront my friend when I see them litter but I'm not sure why you would link this to westerner/Angmoh pov? :???:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Dec 2011 3:56 pm

ankle wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Ankle, are you old enough to remember when GCT was the Prime Minister? In one of his speeches he even commented about the same thing. His take? If every Singaporean doesn't confront the litterbug or inconsiderate/rude Singaporean about their behaviour, then they are just as guilty as the person doing it. Why? Because you are tacitly, by not saying anything, approving of their actions. This is from your previous Prime Minister while still the PM. So don't say it's purely a Western/AngMo viewpoint.


I'm old enough but too young to be interested in the singapore politics.

I do confront my friend when I see them litter but I'm not sure why you would link this to westerner/Angmoh pov? :???:


If you confront your friends, why don't you confront inconsiderate strangers? Most westerners are very outspoken when they see something being done that is antisocial. Singaporeans, on the other hand, seem to think that it isn't any of their business. That is exactly WHY things don't change here. (and NO I haven't seen any discernible changes in 30 years here - or if there are, so so minute, that the rest overshadows all else). Or, as my wife used to say, don't say anything, you will get bashed up. (my wife is local) Today, she is as hardcore as I am. She will scold anybody if necessary. Oh, bashed up? nah. Most are too dumbfounded to reply, as they are used to other Singaporeans agreeing with their behaviour cause they don't say anything.

Oh, if you are 30+ you should have had to vote this year in one or both of the elections. You mean you just voted for somebody without knowing what the truth is? Are you indicative of the 30's crowd in general? No wonder this country is going to go down the toilet. :o


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