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Why all the 'hatred' towards us 'foreigners'?

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:13 pm

ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Billy, you know it, I know it, even the squirrel knows it (apologies from me in an inebriated state :P ) , but, it's shaping up to be a boring weekend otherwise! :lol:


+1 :D :D Says the Squirrel ..


Chirrup*3


8-)

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Postby Barri » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:17 am

I do not agree with you Social Capitalist.
Singaporeans are not more racist then people from other countries and it is very mild if you consider that there are 3 majorities living in one country.
On first look it seems like blatant racism cause here they are used to use the words local, foreigner, ang moh, chinese, malay, indian etc

Then when you look deeper you see that many Singaporeans have friends in all 3 major groups and with foreigners and all 3 major groups seem to say the same.
Historically some 50 years ago Singapore was more laidback, houseprices where low, food costs lower etc then when more and more multi nationals came in their lives started to change rapidly.
Economically: the rents are high, food prices are high etc so many could not even afford to take lower paying jobs.

I see too many Singaporeans living to work, so yeah some of them who are not so politically educated will link the presence of foreigners to their own not so fortunate situation especially preferring to blame/hate those foreigners who are annoyingly present in their view.

That is quite standard human behavior and can be observed all over this planet.

By shutting them/her friends out you only can over-righteously point to them as the foreigner haters, your gf loses her friends -> (social isolation), what leads to you both starting to hate each other and leads to -> break up and then your (ex)gf can start to hate foreigners too.

Or

If that bothers you my advice is not to take it personally apparently they see you as a local already otherwise they would not be so open about it.
So translate the hate you hear as anger, frustration and pain over their own situation and try to slowly develop more political awareness in them and maybe come up with a solution?.

Good luck

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:26 am

Property prices are high because the government engineers them that way. You know, the blunt tool of keeping the proles quiet by making them believe that they are richer every year.

Otherwise why would the government facilitate it?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 1:36 am

Barri,

You conveniently forget about the blatant racism used by HDB to do the Gahmen's bidding in order to separate the minorities so that the only enclave allowed is Chinese. Oh, and don't give me the old song & dance about the '60's race riots, but riots, maria hertzog, yadda, yadda, yadda. The rest of the world is past that. But still your leader seem to think you are are STILL NOT EDUCATED, so they keep in place antiquated laws to prevent families of minorities to be able to stay together.

If you are going to trot out the same belaboured excuses, and try to tell us it's not racism, I would suggest you do some reading before you stick your foot in your mouth big time. Racism is alive and well in Singapore. It's even sanctioned by the gahmen.

It's time for the........

Image

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Postby wwww » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 8:33 am

There is no country that is 100% free of racism. However, I do not think that Singaporeans are especially racist. With so many nationalities and cultures living together peacefully, how can they be?

I work in a very Singaporean company with 95% of my colleagues being Singaporean, a few filippinos and me, the ang mo. Not once anyone has treated me differently than a local, not taken me seriously or been blatantly racist towards me. But then I also do my fair share to fit in. I eat their food, do not make fun of their dialect (sometimes I even "try" to speak it myself...hehehe), etc etc. Of course I do get a friendly tease sometimes (like all ang mos are rich yadayadya) but then you need to be able to not take it serious if you live far away from home.

In short, there's not perfect place in the world, but Singaporeans are a friendly and very accepting bunch of people if you accept their culture and try to live their way of life.

Just my $0.02 :wink:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:48 am

Then I'm assuming under both Mandarin & Dialect, yeah?

Sure, if you are the only Ang Mo in the company, then you become the "token" white boy! Or girl, as the case may be. But do you know what they think about you in languages you don't understand. Do you even care? My last two company have been locally owned & operated. I was & am the only Ang Moh as well, with the rest made up of Locals (all 4 races), Burmese (Burmese & Indian), Indian and Malaysians (Indian & Malay & Chinese). We have over 200 staff.

The dynamics are interesting to watch. As yes racism is very much alive and well. Not necessarily with or affecting me, but amongst the various Asian enthnic groups. (This is mostly prevalent among my local/Malaysian staff).

The good thing is that, unlike some countries, there aren't any really bad confrontations (that are apparently due to racism itself). However, probably on of the reason is the continuing usage of the threat of ISA to control and subdue the population to mindless drones.......

As far as animosity towards foreigners, well, what to say....

The local population have heaps of education, but very little, if any common sense. They want to shift the blame for the high prices to the foreigners even though the results are because of their mass greed, nothing less.

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Postby carteki » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 1:51 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Then I'm assuming under both Mandarin & Dialect, yeah?


SMS you make a very good point. I was chatting to a guy who lived here 8 years ago (he now studies overseas, but his parents are here). He picked up the local dialect in school and said you'd be amazed at what is said about you just walking down the street (in the local dialect) - its not pretty.

For those people who say that they've not experienced racism personally - that is completely possible for 2 reasons: a) racism very rarely manifests itself in a one-to-one interaction and b) the asian concept of "face" makes it even less likely that you'll be told to your face what your colleagues think.

I've seen the racism (disguised as cultural tolerance) between the 3 major ethnic groups here. It is definitely there and a basic way in which this country operates (although if you're Chinese you have no clue and think that this is how life actually is).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 2:18 pm

carteki, ^^^^ +1

Both you and I might have a bit better perspective than a lot of others, because of where you come from and how & when I grew up (as well as where). Ingrained racism is hard to understand and even harder to break a habit that has been ingrained from birth. It's having been on both sides of the fence that have helped me to understand the nuances of racism. I was the vast majority in my country in the 60's. I was brought up in the era where "equality" meant similar facilities for both, but no mixing please. :( It took many years away from home and region to understand just how wrong it was and many more years to change bad habits.

But, it is definitely hard to do, I'm the first to admit. Especially when you come from the largest majority, e.g., the ones that make the rules. Unfortunately, the majority never feel the effects of laws that discriminate. It's only when you've walk a mile or several miles in the shoes of the minorities do you fully understand, and feel, the implications of those laws.

It's interesting, when you have a precocious 6 year old daughter who looks Caucasian (olive complexion & brown hair) and out on the MRT or Bus with Mom (Dark Tamil Indian) and Dad, very fair Caucasian. Especially with the Chinese Aunties. The comments in Mandarin usually got a pretty sharp retort from my daughter as Mandarin is her second language, not Tamil. As she got older, she learned to temper not her replies to the aunties or other local Chinese, but what she related to us that which was actually said (if translated figuratively) to keep my temper down to a minimum. :wink:

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Postby movingtospore » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 4:50 pm

Do you think the younger ones are worse than the elders here for this, or the other way around? I've met some really amazing Singaporeans here in their 40s and 50s who've lived abroad for many years and come home. They bring with them an international world view, much less myopic. But the young ones, yikes. Seem to have been raised to believe they're the be-all and end-all and every other race on the planet is beneath them.

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Postby BillyB » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 5:11 pm

carteki wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Then I'm assuming under both Mandarin & Dialect, yeah?


SMS you make a very good point. I was chatting to a guy who lived here 8 years ago (he now studies overseas, but his parents are here). He picked up the local dialect in school and said you'd be amazed at what is said about you just walking down the street (in the local dialect) - its not pretty.

For those people who say that they've not experienced racism personally - that is completely possible for 2 reasons: a) racism very rarely manifests itself in a one-to-one interaction and b) the asian concept of "face" makes it even less likely that you'll be told to your face what your colleagues think.

I've seen the racism (disguised as cultural tolerance) between the 3 major ethnic groups here. It is definitely there and a basic way in which this country operates (although if you're Chinese you have no clue and think that this is how life actually is).


I'd agree with the bold part. This happens frequently in lifts, coffee shops, shops, restaurants, MRT. It's useful to have someone with you who understands all the dialects - aka my GF - and who will take on the racism and snide comments and embarrass them by replying with something really sarcastic in the same dialect. The sniper then turns extremely sheepish......

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 6:10 pm

BillyB wrote:I'd agree with the bold part. This happens frequently in lifts, coffee shops, shops, restaurants, MRT. It's useful to have someone with you who understands all the dialects - aka my GF - and who will take on the racism and snide comments and embarrass them by replying with something really sarcastic in the same dialect. The sniper then turns extremely sheepish......


My local wife provides the same 'translation service' for me :) It is a constant surprise (disappointment) the unsolicited bile that some total strangers come out with.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 6:32 pm

That's the benefit of having gone "native" as the old saying goes. We have an inside track to the "warts" under the glossy veneer that the STB likes to portray to the rest of the world. It's pretty ugly underneath it all. Those who come here and are blinkered by the shininess of it all, well, enjoy it and don't stay too long or you are liable to be somewhat disappointed once the rose tint wears off.

It's a shame that Leeky couldn't do with with the population as he did with the infrastructure. If it got in the way of progress, eliminate it. Unfortunately, he's tried subtle methods on several occasions but like Mengele, he couldn't quite get it right. Now you have highly intelligent individuals who are incapable of using common sense.

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Re: Why all the 'hatred' towards us 'foreigners'?

Postby longstebe » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 6:47 pm

SocialisticCapitalist wrote:/rant start

Just got back from a pretty devastating and uneventful 'pub crawl'. All i keep hearing from my gf's friends were how foreigners are stealing the locals jobs, pushing the prices of housing up, the usual yadada etc - right in front of my face! Given how I have the 'Foreigner' status tagged all over me - its as though i'm invisible!


I fell in love with a SG girl, and given the chance, I wouldnt even be here! And its not the first time this has happened! I feel like I can no longer hang out with any of her friends anymore as they all seem to all 'hate' foreigners and recently this issue has somewhat been a strain on our relationship despite having been together for >5 years!

Sorry for the rant. I just needed a place to vent my anger and frustration.

/rant end


Haven't they got better things to talk about, imagine being out with a few girls back home and they start complaining about the Polskis (no offence).
Thats something over a cuppa in the house.

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Postby Brah » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:04 pm

Anyone who does that is already sheep. Many times I don't need to know the language to know when it's being done, looking them straight in the eye gives them away.

BillyB wrote:
carteki wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Then I'm assuming under both Mandarin & Dialect, yeah?


SMS you make a very good point. I was chatting to a guy who lived here 8 years ago (he now studies overseas, but his parents are here). He picked up the local dialect in school and said you'd be amazed at what is said about you just walking down the street (in the local dialect) - its not pretty.

For those people who say that they've not experienced racism personally - that is completely possible for 2 reasons: a) racism very rarely manifests itself in a one-to-one interaction and b) the asian concept of "face" makes it even less likely that you'll be told to your face what your colleagues think.

I've seen the racism (disguised as cultural tolerance) between the 3 major ethnic groups here. It is definitely there and a basic way in which this country operates (although if you're Chinese you have no clue and think that this is how life actually is).


I'd agree with the bold part. This happens frequently in lifts, coffee shops, shops, restaurants, MRT. It's useful to have someone with you who understands all the dialects - aka my GF - and who will take on the racism and snide comments and embarrass them by replying with something really sarcastic in the same dialect. The sniper then turns extremely sheepish......

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:24 pm

So true, Brah, so true. In addition, you don't need to know the language at all...... tone of voice is usually enough.


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