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Help!! No Letter Of Appointment! $ In Cash - Verbally etcs

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shiranaihito
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Help!! No Letter Of Appointment! $ In Cash - Verbally etcs

Postby shiranaihito » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 6:08 pm

I was taken aback when my cousin told me that the company that engaged her as secretary recently refused to give her the duplicate set of the letter of appointment that she had signed. Another shocking thing is she told me that that company told her that her salary will be in cash and she will only receive her salary one month after her first day - i.e. start: 12-10-2011, pay: 12-11-2011.


Scenario:

The hr manager briefed her on the letter of appointment then her signature. She thought the hr manager will give her the duplicate set later but none in the end of the 1st day & 2nd day of work as well. She asked for it on the 3rd day but the hr manager refused to give, telling her that he will only give her after 3months, saying that the practice has been going on in the company for more than 5 years, then said he can check with the boss if can give her or not.

On the 4th day (i.e. Sat), she insisted on it from the hr manager, the hr manager told her that the practice is in the company's policy, my cousin replied him that such is not accepted in M.O.M then the hr manager again brought up the boss, this time my cousin asked him to go ahead, telling him that she can't possibly work at her own risk -(i.e. no black & white to prove her existence there!!) but the hr manager told her that the boss is not coming, he will then check with him on Monday.


My cousin is worried that what if they do not pay her the due salary then how is she going to report them as she has nothing to prove her existence at all. She already worked for four days. Even so, she don't mind to work there as long as they give her the letter of appointment

btw, my cousin is a local

Lame loh this company, I feel the hr manager keeps postponing.


Who is in hr? kindly advise my cousin.. she feels helpless..

hope to hear advice soon


Thank you.. :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 8:25 pm

Tell her to go to MOM and complain. However, I'm not sure why she is complaining as most company only pay monthly (e.g., you will be paid at the end of the month or then end of a months duration (that does sound strange though, most would pay only a partial month from the date of hire to the end of their normal pay cycle.

However, It sounds like the whole thing is shady and I wouldn't put it past them to not declaring the wages and also they probably won't be paying any CPF contributions as well.

The best thing she can so is to walk away, for get the 4 days salary (but if she does, she should still go to MOM to report them, also by not having any paper, she probably won't collect anything, but MOM will be watching the employer though.

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Postby shiranaihito » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 9:24 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Tell her to go to MOM and complain. However, I'm not sure why she is complaining as most company only pay monthly (e.g., you will be paid at the end of the month or then end of a months duration (that does sound strange though, most would pay only a partial month from the date of hire to the end of their normal pay cycle.
She is fine on the wage arrangement. Problem is they refused to give her the duplicate set of that letter of appointment she signed. Isn't a must to have something black & white to prove one is employed? What can she do if they do not pay her the due salary by then? How can she make a report at MOM without having any black & white by then?


However, It sounds like the whole thing is shady and I wouldn't put it past them to not declaring the wages and also they probably won't be paying any CPF contributions as well.
They did declared the wage on that letter of appointment. As mentioned, they refused to give her the duplicate set of that letter of appointment that she had signed. Ya, she was pretty shocked when the hr manager told her they will only pay her salary in cash.. = no CPF contribution.

The best thing she can so is to walk away, for get the 4 days salary (but if she does, she should still go to MOM to report them, also by not having any paper, she probably won't collect anything, but MOM will be watching the employer though.

She told me that boss is driving a rolls royce.. didn't expect such will come from one who is actually driving a high-end car. Anyway, will MOM bother to listen to her w/o having any papers?

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how to?

Postby shiranaihito » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 9:48 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Tell her to go to MOM and complain. However, I'm not sure why she is complaining as most company only pay monthly (e.g., you will be paid at the end of the month or then end of a months duration (that does sound strange though, most would pay only a partial month from the date of hire to the end of their normal pay cycle.

However, It sounds like the whole thing is shady and I wouldn't put it past them to not declaring the wages and also they probably won't be paying any CPF contributions as well.

The best thing she can so is to walk away, for get the 4 days salary (but if she does, she should still go to MOM to report them, also by not having any paper, she probably won't collect anything, but MOM will be watching the employer though.


how can she walk away? the letter of appointment that she signed is with them. She recalled that need to compensate the company if suddenly terminate her service, or did not turn up for work w/o notifying anyone..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:26 pm

Then she will have to continue to work for them until she gets her first paycheck. If she gets all that she is supposed to received AND they have paid the CPF contributions necessary, then she has nothing to complain about. If they don't give her a payvoucher showing her salary & deductions then she needs to see MOM.

At this point she has absolutely nothing for proof other than the fact that she doesn't have a copy of her contract. She can still go to MOM to question if it's legal not to give her one and see where it goes from there. If they fire her, it would be without cause so they would have to pay her salary in lieu equal to the amount she would have to pay them. If they don't there is another reason to go to MOM.

As far as the boss driving a Roller? Who the hell cares what he drives. And yes, people with Rollers, and all kinds of property can be crooks as well. Might be part of the reason they got lots of money? Ever think of that?

Why is she scared?

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Postby shiranaihito » Mon, 17 Oct 2011 7:01 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Then she will have to continue to work for them until she gets her first paycheck. If she gets all that she is supposed to received AND they have paid the CPF contributions necessary, then she has nothing to complain about. If they don't give her a payvoucher showing her salary & deductions then she needs to see MOM.
Since her salary will be in cash, I assume there won't be any black & white. She said the hr manager didn't mention on the CPF contribution.

At this point she has absolutely nothing for proof other than the fact that she doesn't have a copy of her contract. She can still go to MOM to question if it's legal not to give her one and see where it goes from there. If they fire her, it would be without cause so they would have to pay her salary in lieu equal to the amount she would have to pay them. If they don't there is another reason to go to MOM.
Oh, means that she has to take one unpaid leave to go MOM liao, haa. Really, I feel she is in the losing end, not having any documents. She will definitely lose out if they do not pay her the due salary huh? -_-

As far as the boss driving a Roller? Who the hell cares what he drives. And yes, people with Rollers, and all kinds of property can be crooks as well. Might be part of the reason they got lots of money? Ever think of that?
ya.. haa

Why is she scared?

She told me that based on her 4 days of working experience over there, she feels the director, cfo (director's wife), finance manager are temperamental. That's why she is worried what if they do not pay the due salary by then, she has nothing on hand to prove that she is supposed to have that wage. Somemore, is in verbal.. telling her that she will only receive her salary in cash 1 months after the starting day. Then like an idiot.. providing free labour??

She wish to know what should she do if today they still refused to give her the letter of appointment? - Continue to work at her own risk OR ........

btw Sundaymorningstaple, possible to sms my cousin your advice at 9028 6242? She is very worried, dont know what she should do if they still refused to give her the letter of appointment today

thank you

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Postby carteki » Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:06 am

If they won't give a letter of appointment, I suggest that your cousin starts using her hp to take pictures to record her days at work (and perhaps a conversation with the HR manager). These can be faked, but it makes it more difficult for the employer to dispute the allegation that she was working there.

Another option is say that she needs confirmation of employment for a loan from a bank since she doesn't have 3 months worth of salary slips.

The payment at the end of the pay period - ie one month is fairly normal. Rarely do you get paid to do work BEFORE you've done any. The employer then has 7 days from the end of the pay period to pay up. If they don't, then they're in breach with the MOM.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:14 am

Kim! Excellent suggestions! Gonna miss you on Friday, but enjoy Bali! :wink:

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aiyoo aa... what to do??

Postby shiranaihito » Sun, 23 Oct 2011 9:20 pm

gosh.. last night my cousin told me that hr manager came up with another excuse again, saying that her letter of appointment is kept by the boss.. she went to ask directly from the boss but the boss seemed busy, didn't reply her.. my cousin feels very strange, how come it seem so difficult to have a copy of what she signed?!

understand from my cousin that.. that company actually is a big organization but terms & conditions in the letter of appointment is very different... anyway..........

kindly advise..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:51 pm

We've already given you advice. Tell her to use it.

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Postby ausinsg » Sat, 29 Oct 2011 4:19 pm

Have you at least tried calling MOM for your cousin and asking if the employee is entitled to a copy of the letter of appointment so she is aware of the terms of the contract she has entered?

If you know this, you know if you can demand action or if you have to persuade them.

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mom dare not to advise much.. they seem to protect employer'

Postby shiranaihito » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 1:14 pm

well, here's one of the e-conversation (most recent) between my cousin and them: -


by my cousin:

'Chong Tan Sok Peng (Ms),

Here’s the situation again, DO Advise Me Accordingly on the followings: -

- the hr manager (whom is the boss's son) briefed me on the letter of appointment on my first day BUT did not give me the duplicate copies,

- I then asked from the hr manager on the 3rd day, he told me that the practice of giving the duplicate copies only after 3 months is one of the company policies. The next day, I insisted on the duplicate copies but he told me that he has to check with the boss if can give me or not,

- few days later, I asked him again, this time he told me that the letter of appointment is with the boss. I then checked with the boss, BUT the boss didn't give an answer/ hasn't give me the duplicate copies.

Again, today I checked with the boss if I can have the duplicate copies of what I had signed. Unexpectedly, the boss asked me if I have any problem, talking rubbish. I was taken aback on what he said, I told him that it’s a common practice that each of us has a copy of the letter of appointment. He was angry, raised his voice at me, saying sorts, asked me to go out. At that time, I was still composed, told him that the hr manager asked me to get it from him. Anyway, few minutes later, the operation manager transferred me to level one/ out from my usual working area which is at level two.

Well, I joined that company as a Secretary, my main scope is to assist the boss hence I have to sit outside his room at level two. But the boss asked the operation manager to transfer me to level one.


Now, I am very worried, still they refused to give me the duplicate copies of what I had signed, the boss switched the topic, saying sorts. What can I do if they terminate me without paying me the due salary just because I asked for the duplicate copies of the letter of appointment? What can I do if they terminate me anyhow? If they do not pay me the due salary, how can I still claim without the letter of appointment?

Hope to hear from you very soon'.



the reply: -

We are sorry to learn of your stressful situation at the workplace. If your service was terminated by the employer without payment, please be assured that you can still seek the assistance of the Ministry to recover your salary payment even though you do not have a copy of the appointment letter.

Should you require more information on the statutory benefits provided for under the Employment Act, you could visit the Ministry of Manpower's web-site at http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practi ... fault.aspx or call 6 4385122. If you are making a claim under the Employment Act, you may also make an e-appointment to review your claim using the following link : http://app2.etools.mom.gov.sg/eindex.aspx.




In emails, they said 'you can still seek the assistance to recover the salary payment', but things will be totally different in the real picture. Simply, without the letter of appointment, how to claim if they deny the due salary

anyway, in the last attempt of asking on the letter of appointment from the boss, my cousin was immediately booted out in few minutes. Still, they refused to let her has the duplicate copies of the letter of appointment. My cousin recalled there seem to be a clause saying 'penalty of 100 if didn't turn up for work or what' thus she requested a black & white document from them indicating that they can't claim any $ from her since it was their decision, not my cousin's decision to leave the company.

eew.. something must be wrong else they won't refuse to let my cousin have the duplicate copies of the letter of appointment
Last edited by shiranaihito on Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 1:20 pm

So she needs to do exactly what we told her to do. Additionally, she needs to go to MOM if she is released from her employment.

As she has already notified MOM of her predicament, she should make sure she keeps all copies of any email traffic between her and her company and her and MOM to show a timeline. She should also write down all attempts, responses and dates & times. This will be relevant once she is terminated/resigns. She has already sent the ball in motion so there is a good chance that anything the employer might say will be looked at sideways as it is apparent that there is something fishy going on. The fact that an employer will not give a copy of an employment contract is in violation already. Even had they originally done so, there is no real reason why they cannot give her another. Unfortunately, she isn't out of a job yet, so there is little she can do. If she's been demoted, assuming her pay hasn't been cut, again, there is little she can do.

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Postby shiranaihito » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 1:47 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So she needs to do exactly what we told her to do. Additionally, she needs to go to MOM if she is released from her employment.

As she has already notified MOM of her predicament, she should make sure she keeps all copies of any email traffic between her and her company and her and MOM to show a timeline. She should also write down all attempts, responses and dates & times. This will be relevant once she is terminated/resigns. She has already sent the ball in motion so there is a good chance that anything the employer might say will be looked at sideways as it is apparent that there is something fishy going on. The fact that an employer will not give a copy of an employment contract is in violation already. Even had they originally done so, there is no real reason why they cannot give her another.

Unfortunately, she isn't out of a job yet, so there is little she can do. If she's been demoted, assuming her pay hasn't been cut, again, there is little she can do.

Ya, she's been demoted, just because of asking on the duplicate copies of the letter of appointment. She's waiting for the reply from mom on the calculation on the pay she got, as she still couldn't get the figure using the e-calculator found in the mom website. Uhmm, since they did gave her the letter saying they are willing to release her, there will be no claim against each other, then she is considered as out of the job right? So, since she is released from her employment, does she still need to go to MOM?

Another headache, tomorrow...... she doesn't know how to answer her parents on why she's not working. Haa, parents won't understand the real reason..
:P

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Postby ausinsg » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 2:48 pm

It is quite strange that they are willing to type up a letter releasing her from employment obligations, than photocopying the letter of appointment. That is a lot more work for them!

I would suggest that the next time your cousin takes a photo of anything she is about to sign with her phone camera. And ask for a hardcopy.

Most parents don't want to see their children taken advantage of. They will eventually understand!


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