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10 Years IT project Manager

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amolch
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10 Years IT project Manager

Postby amolch » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 2:23 am

Hi Guys,

I am trying to get into interviews for a job as an IT Project Manager. I am not able to get the recruiters whom I contacted arrange proper Face 2 Face interviews.

Is it possible to suggest some good recruiters for IT.

Also, has the market got so tight that every recruiter is hiring only a PR or local singaporean. I always thought Singapore to be open for technical knowledge

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Postby conversant » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 3:11 am

I'm on my way there to find a similar role. I also have 10+ years of I.T. experience (in the U.S.). Let's keep in touch to compare notes and help each other out.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 7:57 am

What kind of "IT Project Manager"? You will find it hard to come by such jobs unless you are approaching computer vendors, and even then it will be tough.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 9:38 am

conversant wrote:I'm on my way there to find a similar role. I also have 10+ years of I.T. experience (in the U.S.). Let's keep in touch to compare notes and help each other out.


If you are holding similar portfolios and competing for the same positions, don't you think he would be smart enough to see through your ploy to try to gain a advantage when applying for the same type of positions? :-|

I know, you'd like to help him out. Out the door of the departure lounge at Changi to get rid of potential competition.

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Postby conversant » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 1:07 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you are holding similar portfolios and competing for the same positions, don't you think he would be smart enough to see through your ploy to try to gain a advantage when applying for the same type of positions? :-|

I know, you'd like to help him out. Out the door of the departure lounge at Changi to get rid of potential competition.


I actually spoke to a recruiter who has helped me and he found a position for which I wasn't suited since they wanted a Project Manager who had managed a different type of project before. I thought I could refer the OP to that recruiter. If not me, then possibly the OP could try since he may have the requisite type of skill set.

Also, there isn't just one such position in the entire country! If it were a ploy -- which is a little harsh, if you ask me-- the OP would have the same advantage. Wouldn't he?:)

I appreciate your comment since it gave me a chance to clarify my position, sms, and your help over the years in the forum to all who need it is much appreciated as well! Thank you.:)

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Postby conversant » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 1:39 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:What kind of "IT Project Manager"? You will find it hard to come by such jobs unless you are approaching computer vendors, and even then it will be tough.


On a related note, if you don't mind my asking... one of the recruiters that I spoke with was hell bent on sticking to my payroll title. Since I worked in a semi-government entity in the U.S., everyone's payroll title was the same but we performed different roles over the years.

The reason the recruiter gave was that the MOM is 'very strict' about titles. I found that they have a list on their Web site of standard job titles. That, I can understand.

What if your function was not coding, but your job title was 'Programmer, Analyst' (which is one of the MOM's standard titles), are you gonna have a hard time getting an EP application approved for a different job function?

By the way, I have reference letters that attest to the functions I have performed from relatively high-ranking people in the organization, such as the Director of Technology, the Director of Operations, etc. Is that documentation worth anything or even required?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 1:41 pm

So, the help you would be giving him is those that you turned down or weren't interested in you..... :wink: Would you give him info on positions that you were still actively applying for? :P

Oh, in a tight labour market, it's always possible that there IS only one position available in the whole country. Guess it depends on how high up the food chain one is, yeah? :)

No worries. Just 'avin' a dig this mornin'! :lol:

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Postby conversant » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 2:52 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So, the help you would be giving him is those that you turned down or weren't interested in you..... :wink: Would you give him info on positions that you were still actively applying for? :P

Oh, in a tight labour market, it's always possible that there IS only one position available in the whole country. Guess it depends on how high up the food chain one is, yeah? :)

No worries. Just 'avin' a dig this mornin'! :lol:


I like your sense of humor!:)

I'm not high up the food chain, so I'm sure there would be umpteen positions. As I said, it is a matter of different skill sets.

In this case, you are right, I am talking about a position that the recruiter didn't consider me fit for, since I didn't know about the OP. But, I'm thinking, it could help him.

I see it more like being part of the same cohort in school, where everyone's trying to get ahead -- be at the top rank, even -- and yet, we form study groups and help each other understand concepts even though we are all going to appear for the examinations individually. More like teamwork. That's all.

Either way, if we decide to collaborate, we would still be evaluated on our own personalities, ability to communicate, and many, many intangibles --as you well know-- besides our skill sets.

In the same vein, though, do you think it would save us time to share information with each about where recruiters / companies are (alluding to the OP's initial comment) and who has been useful or non-responsive? Also, we could share information that we have researched about just living in Singapore. That would help us. Wouldn't it?

Any other ideas are more than welcome. Thanks, again, sms.:)


I appreciate the time and effort that everyone is expending in helping us newbies. I am also trying to post follow-ups to my experiences and the results of my research in the threads I'm participating in so the next people in line wanting that info. would get a definitive answer. I've seen others do this and it has been inspiring and helpful. Thank you.:)

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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 3:51 pm

conversant wrote:What if your function was not coding, but your job title was 'Programmer, Analyst' (which is one of the MOM's standard titles), are you gonna have a hard time getting an EP application approved for a different job function?


You have to remember that MOM is not employing Industry specialists, and they are very particular about the titles.

For example, and IT Person knows an IT Network Engineer also qualifies to a great extent, as an IT security engineer, and so, but for MOM, it will look like a job-hop

To tell you why, from what I know atleast, a few years ago, a lot of people from the sub-continent, did that .. hence, I understand, MOM became smarter ..

Farmers, after a 1 month Java crash course, applied as Java specialists, and started to learn stuff after getting the job here ..

Or Metallurgical engineers (now, you gonna laugh - i.e. Stone Quarry engineers), with a crash course, became Security Analaysts, and I know one guy who was fired by the employer within a month as while he was super theory oriented, had zero hands-on exposure .. At the customer site, he was trying to figure out where the console cable fits in, as all the slots were UTP, and had zero idea which is which, and then was 'trying' different options .. until the customer himself showed him which is for console and which is for the LAN ..

And i quoted in another forum, of an early 20 year old wonder, who had clocked years of experience .. and more .. and spent the first few days at the customer site reading the manuals .. doesn't bade well .. and the customer cancelled the contract, as they bluntly put it "we are not paying for your staff to do trial and error"

Well, employers want people who deliver, and if they want people to be trained, the job spec says so .. "training provided" .. etc

And, those days, since MOM was very strict on issuing EP for sales jobs, many a sales guy got their EP saying they are Engineers ..

And MOM has had such feedbacks, and even my then employer wrote a strong letter to MOM highlighting that MOM has to also ensure such 'talent' doesn't slip through ..

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Postby conversant » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 4:14 pm

ecureilx wrote:
conversant wrote:What if your function was not coding, but your job title was 'Programmer, Analyst' (which is one of the MOM's standard titles), are you gonna have a hard time getting an EP application approved for a different job function?


You have to remember that MOM is not employing Industry specialists, and they are very particular about the titles.

For example, and IT Person knows an IT Network Engineer also qualifies to a great extent, as an IT security engineer, and so, but for MOM, it will look like a job-hop.

So, in this specific case, the person may well be suitable for the job as per the employer but MOM won't let them in?

To tell you why, from what I know atleast, a few years ago, a lot of people from the sub-continent, did that .. hence, I understand, MOM became smarter ..

100% of my work experience is from the U.S., but I --like everyone else-- won't be immune to the effects of my predecessors, I take it.:(

Farmers, after a 1 month Java crash course, applied as Java specialists, and started to learn stuff after getting the job here ..

Or Metallurgical engineers (now, you gonna laugh - i.e. Stone Quarry engineers), with a crash course, became Security Analaysts, and I know one guy who was fired by the employer within a month as while he was super theory oriented, had zero hands-on exposure .. At the customer site, he was trying to figure out where the console cable fits in, as all the slots were UTP, and had zero idea which is which, and then was 'trying' different options .. until the customer himself showed him which is for console and which is for the LAN ..

These things are laughable, indeed!:)

And i quoted in another forum, of an early 20 year old wonder, who had clocked years of experience .. and more .. and spent the first few days at the customer site reading the manuals .. doesn't bade well .. and the customer cancelled the contract, as they bluntly put it "we are not paying for your staff to do trial and error"

Well, employers want people who deliver, and if they want people to be trained, the job spec says so .. "training provided" .. etc

Since I have over a decade of experience, I'm just looking for a good fit for the skills I already have and am not looking to get trained, although --especially in I.T.-- learning must continue. Like an ex-colleague of mine jested, "We're in the wrong field. We should have become history teachers!":)

And, those days, since MOM was very strict on issuing EP for sales jobs, many a sales guy got their EP saying they are Engineers ..

But someone who has been purely technical should be able to get a job in technical pre-sales. Shouldn't they?

I mean, I know a guy with two CCIE's who was handling High Touch Tech Support for big clients like MCI in San Jose, but now he switched roles to be in technical pre-sales.

Or, are you saying that if you are going to switch roles to something where your transferable skills could be used, it is not going to be when you initially get employed in Singapore. You could get into that role later, but not initially.


And MOM has had such feedbacks, and even my then employer wrote a strong letter to MOM highlighting that MOM has to also ensure such 'talent' doesn't slip through ..

Didn't your employer interview this person before they made the hiring decision? How is it that they don't come to know in the technical interview round that this person isn't worth his salt!?:)


Thanks for your response.:)

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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 4:31 pm

conversant wrote:So, in this specific case, the person may well be suitable for the job as per the employer but MOM won't let them in?


As I said, MOM has seen enough abuses, and they are wary of abuses happening .. and it the employer desperately needs such FT, they do have specific recourse - appeal personally, and submit the documents stating that without this talent, the company is in trouble, or something to that effect .. And MOM will make exceptions for such cases ..

But someone who has been purely technical should be able to get a job in technical pre-sales. Shouldn't they?


No, as there is a very fine line between pre-sales and being forced to clock up sales numbers .. when times are bad. I have been there .. And SME's do tend to put technical people in Sales, when the going gets tough ..

And MOM DOES NOT WANT NON-LOCALS to engage in sales, as that is deemed to be an area that locals should cover ..

Especially since the Locals have been steadily building up their expertise.

10 years ago, in IT distribution houses, it was very rare to see local engineers. Now it is getting rarer to see FTs ..

Didn't your employer interview this person before they made the hiring decision? How is it that they don't come to know in the technical interview round that this person isn't worth his salt!?:)


The above guy, we sort of 'inherited' as part of a company merger ..

And you have to understand, even when it comes to HR companies/Recruitment companies, a fair number of those sitting there have very low technical expertise.

Can you explain this, as a colleague was interviewed by a Recruitment consultant ?

Q: I am looking for Wintel Expertise
A: I am a Wintel engineer
Q: How is your Windows 2008 Server Exposure ?
A: Great
Q: How is your Windows server Exposure ?
A: Great
Q: How is your Wintel 2008 server Exposure ?
A: Great
Q: How is your "INTEL" Server exposure ?
A: Great
Q: How is your WINDOWS INTEL SERVER EXPOSURE ?
A: Great
Q: how is your Windows 2003 Exposure
A: Great
Q: How is your WINTEL SERVER 2003 Exposure ?
A: Great
Q: How is your WINDOW 2000 server exposure ?
A: Great
Q: How is your WINTEL 2000 server exposure ?

Do you see something wrong there ?

While initially my colleague assumed that it is one of the attempts to find the truth - like the cops, he innocently asked the interviewer if she knew about Windows servers, and Microsoft solutions. She said no .. and he nicely explained that her questions should have been stopped at Windows server expertise, and if 2008, yes, then 2008, and verify the MSCE papers ..

And the questions should have been more technical, if she was going to short list ..

Turns out her questions were provided by the prospective employer's Recruitment consultant ..

And me personally was asked once ..

How is your L3 switch exposure ? followed by L2 switch exposure .. when I innocently told that is somebody is an expert in L3, L2 is a piece of cake, the recruiter smiled and said "well, my client asked me to check the above" and next day she says her clients' client had been asked by the HR manager .. as the HR manager had googled and found some possible questions ..

One more ? A consultant called me and asked me to describe how data is written to a disk. when I asked where she got the question, she said it was from google .. as she is not an IT person ..

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Postby conversant » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 4:39 pm

ecureilx wrote:And MOM DOES NOT WANT NON-LOCALS to engage in sales, as that is deemed to be an area that locals should cover ..


I'm not in this boat but this may help others who are in this situation know what not to pursue!:)

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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 5:07 pm

conversant wrote:
ecureilx wrote:And MOM DOES NOT WANT NON-LOCALS to engage in sales, as that is deemed to be an area that locals should cover ..


I'm not in this boat but this may help others who are in this situation know what not to pursue!:)


Apart from Sales, there are a host of jobs which Singapore Govt would like Singaporeans to take up ..

Though, there are exceptions to the rules .. my housemate is employed as a sales consultant, and her pass too states so :D :D

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 16 Oct 2011 8:59 pm

I've still not seen anything from the OP to suggest that actual projects have been managed.

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Postby conversant » Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:27 am

Strong Eagle wrote:I've still not seen anything from the OP to suggest that actual projects have been managed.


I would just like to hear from the OP, period!:)

A donde estas, amigo?:)


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