
To fire or not?
Out of interest, what is the acceptable minimum number of warnings before dismissing someone here?
A spoken warning and two written warnings? More? Less?
I have a boss who wants to fire people asap when they aggravate him. I would rather have some kind of paper trail so we can support the decision if it is ever challenged.
A spoken warning and two written warnings? More? Less?
I have a boss who wants to fire people asap when they aggravate him. I would rather have some kind of paper trail so we can support the decision if it is ever challenged.
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No, there are not any minimum warnings necessary. Why should there be? Let's say the guy is a thief, do you give him a warning? Or do you sack him? Yeah, that's extreme, but lets say, in macaroonie's case, the individual is robbing the company of it's productivity? A good employer/HR dept and good line managers should report any signs of problems as soon as they crop up, "then" the subject employee should get a verbal or written warning (depending on what it is) After that? Whatever SOP has been adopted by the company itself. Some might opt to just sack. Again, it's their priority.
Having said that, the company has to follow certain protocols to stay legal, e.g., giving proper notice or payment of salary in lieu of notice, unless the causes for said dismissal is eligible for instant dismissal without notice or in-lieu.
Having said that, the company has to follow certain protocols to stay legal, e.g., giving proper notice or payment of salary in lieu of notice, unless the causes for said dismissal is eligible for instant dismissal without notice or in-lieu.
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macaroonie wrote:There are some improvements! Though i think when it comes to attitude, that can't be changed substantially unless the person really wants to change. I know that firing is necessary sometimes, and it certainly shouldn't be viewed as the easy way out right?
IMHO, you must have been tolerating her for sometimes even before you contemplate to fire her. I would be incline to extend her probation just to be on the safe side. To err to the side of caution is the best approach
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!
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For me, as an HR Manager, firing somebody is never easy. Even when for just cause. But, I also know, not to do so could conceivably cause me to lose other employees that may well be more important as they may be having problems coping with the individual, there their productivity also suffers and their thinking that the management doesn't care, puts you and the company in a bad light. This could obviously have a knock-on effect down the road.
Food for thought?
Food for thought?

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Hi macaroonie... I hear ya! It can be quite frustrating.
I once had a colleague who was very rude in both verbal and emails. It was offensive rude. But this person did not realize the way she said things were rude. To her, she was merely stating the facts.
I don't think you have overly high expectations. It sounds like a mismatch of working/communication styles. Taking it to a further level, it is unfortunately not a professional quality an employee (especially in an MNC) should have.
This person may however do well in an environment where her style is appreciated and necessary. So don't feel bad
I once had a colleague who was very rude in both verbal and emails. It was offensive rude. But this person did not realize the way she said things were rude. To her, she was merely stating the facts.
I don't think you have overly high expectations. It sounds like a mismatch of working/communication styles. Taking it to a further level, it is unfortunately not a professional quality an employee (especially in an MNC) should have.
This person may however do well in an environment where her style is appreciated and necessary. So don't feel bad

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macaroonie wrote:I have tried sitting down and talking once, things improved a bit and then on the slide again. Cocky, rude behaviour towards people. There is a difference between being outspoken and being rude and offensive. Definitely not a team player. I keep thinking that perhaps i can change this person and give them the chance to grow and wise up, but any attempts to help are met with defensive behaviour. Doesn't seem to see there is a problem.
Feel really bad firing someone when the economic situation is not that great and going to get worse. There are many worse people out there, am i being too strict with my standards?
Sorry to be abrupt. Knowing that she's new in your organization and she's being cocky and rude? There must be some wrong with her not just the attitude. Every time, I step into a new office/organization, I never was once rude or cocky. It's just wrong.
Beautifulbum you have the assets dear and the right attitude to keep everyone happybeautifulbum wrote:macaroonie wrote:I have tried sitting down and talking once, things improved a bit and then on the slide again. Cocky, rude behaviour towards people. There is a difference between being outspoken and being rude and offensive. Definitely not a team player. I keep thinking that perhaps i can change this person and give them the chance to grow and wise up, but any attempts to help are met with defensive behaviour. Doesn't seem to see there is a problem.
Feel really bad firing someone when the economic situation is not that great and going to get worse. There are many worse people out there, am i being too strict with my standards?
Sorry to be abrupt. Knowing that she's new in your organization and she's being cocky and rude? There must be some wrong with her not just the attitude. Every time, I step into a new office/organization, I never was once rude or cocky. It's just wrong.

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gcharles wrote:After chatting with her and the attitude still goes on, I think you'll need to let her sign a written warning, indicating your terms. So if ever the day comes, you'll be able to defend yourself if she files a complain.
I very much doubt that you'd ever have to worry about that in Singapore. MOM has the opinion that since, subject to the employment contract and notice period, an employee can resign at any time without having to give a reason, the employer can also fire the employee without having to give a reason.
Seems quite reasonable when you put it like that!
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."
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