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16 Maid Agencies fined

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16 Maid Agencies fined

Postby ksl » Fri, 30 Sep 2011 4:22 pm

16 Maid Agencies Fined for fixing wages of Indonesian maids http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/ar ... id=5331653

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 30 Sep 2011 9:34 pm

Lesson: Indonesian maids should stay away from Singapore because they can make more elsewhere.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 12:11 am

Strong Eagle wrote:Lesson: Indonesian maids should stay away from Singapore because they can make more elsewhere.
That is quite true, Taiwan have a minimum wage for everyone and it's double the income of a Singapore Indonesian maid.

They are treated a little unfairly in Singapore I would like to see a minimum set by the government to protect them from exploitation, i would also like to see more help at hand for many that have culture shock and mental illness because they are not allowed out at all, and have little or no communication to the outside world, Just try talking to yourself for a 2 year contract and it will feel worse than a prison sentence in isolation quite shocking for some maids and more should be done to help them.

Many do not know their rights here!
Last edited by ksl on Sat, 01 Oct 2011 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 12:17 am

They are not being exploited. They come here willingly. I'm sure they know Singapore is a employment choice of last resort. If they are any good to start with they will have already going to the better countries. Nobody forces them to sign on the dotted lines. At least I don't think it's slavery or indentured servitude although it may seem like it. They sign the outrageous contracts of their own free will, even though they've heard all the horror stories......

Actually what the agencies were doing is what the gahmen don't have the balls to do. For the minimum wages of all maids up to a respectable amount. Their problem was the WAY they were doing it. (We were fined along with the other 4 largest pest control companies two years ago for the same thing). It's called price fixing.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 12:55 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:They are not being exploited. They come here willingly. I'm sure they know Singapore is a employment choice of last resort. If they are any good to start with they will have already going to the better countries. Nobody forces them to sign on the dotted lines. At least I don't think it's slavery or indentured servitude although it may seem like it. They sign the outrageous contracts of their own free will, even though they've heard all the horror stories......

Actually what the agencies were doing is what the gahmen don't have the balls to do. For the minimum wages of all maids up to a respectable amount. Their problem was the WAY they were doing it. (We were fined along with the other 4 largest pest control companies two years ago for the same thing). It's called price fixing.
Price fixing is the issue I posted ! $500 is the going rate for most Indonesian maids with experience for the last year, so the price fixing was on the low side.

Singaporeans are pushing prices sky high, so it's only right that a reaction from the lower paid workers is seen. You didn't hear on the radio about the 12$ Roti Prata, because the F1 was on, no doubt his rent was triple the normal price.

I'll put your remarks down to being in Singapore to long and knowing very little about all the maid abuse, or maybe its better to ignore it and blame them for signing the contract. But you know and I know you know that maids are made to do much more than what is in the contracts including the washing of cars.
I will say if the employers are working 12 hrs a day, some of the maids will be doing 16 hrs a day and I'll put a wager on it!

I said some are being exploited not all, some are even beaten to death http://www.singapore-window.org/sw02/020719af.htm not allowed out, and they are also working longer hrs than they should be working.

Sorry SMS I don't agree with your opinion much more can be done for the protection of Indonesian maids. Though now they have demanded high wages Singaporean Agencies are bringing them in from Myanmar, becuase they are cheaper.
SMS says:They are not being exploited
You should have posted this in the joke section :P :roll: :wink:
Last edited by ksl on Sat, 01 Oct 2011 2:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 1:16 am

ksl wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:They are not being exploited. They come here willingly. I'm sure they know Singapore is a employment choice of last resort. If they are any good to start with they will have already going to the better countries. Nobody forces them to sign on the dotted lines. At least I don't think it's slavery or indentured servitude although it may seem like it. They sign the outrageous contracts of their own free will, even though they've heard all the horror stories......

Actually what the agencies were doing is what the gahmen don't have the balls to do. For the minimum wages of all maids up to a respectable amount. Their problem was the WAY they were doing it. (We were fined along with the other 4 largest pest control companies two years ago for the same thing). It's called price fixing.


I'll put your remarks down to being in Singapore to long and knowing very little of what goes on or you ignore it and blame them for signing the contract, but you know and I know you know that maids are made to do much more than what is in the contracts including the washing of cars.
I will say if the employers are working 12 hrs a day, some of the maids will be doing 16 hrs a day and I'll put a wager on it!

I said some are being exploited not all, some are even beaten to death http://www.singapore-window.org/sw02/020719af.htm not allowed out, and they are also working longer hrs than they should be working.

Sorry SMS I don't agree with your opinion much more can be done for the protection of Indonesian maids. Though now they have demanded high wages Singaporean Agencies are bringing them in from Myanmar, becuase they are cheaper.


So you reckon they don't hear the horror stories from Singapore? Do you really expect me to believe you believe they are totally in the dark? You are a damn sight more naive than I am then. They sign the contracts because they are at their wits end how to support their families with their good for nothing layabout husbands. They will do anything to save their kids from abject poverty. But it's not out of ignorance as you seem to believe. I worked in Indonesia for a total of 12 years. I'm probably a lot more clued in on that country and how they think & feel than you are. Likewise, I don't know s*it from shinola about Taiwan or China, you do. Nobody said they aren't being abused. If you will, for once in your life, actually read what I wrote...... They are well aware they may/are being abused, but they sign the contracts willingly. Should they have higher wages? Sure. But collusion in violation of the laws is not the way to do it. The agencies violated the law, plain and simple. I've been there & done that (or should I say, my MD did). Pull you head out of the sand for a change. People all over the world make decisions that, in the eyes of other human beings, appear totally asinine. But until you walk a mile in their shoes, you have absolutely no right on claiming to know how they feel or need, or are willing to put up with. Of course, you will come back with a whole essay about 10 minutes in you ancient past on haw it was exactly like that....... get off the barons & give it a rest. I gotta work in the morning so I'm going to bed. Rant all you want... :roll:

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Postby ksl » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 2:16 am

:lol: Oops! what caused that little outburst the wager on exploitation yawn! Totally inappropriate reply shit happens get over it or go to bed early. :-|

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 11:34 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
So you reckon they don't hear the horror stories from Singapore? Do you really expect me to believe you believe they are totally in the dark? You are a damn sight more naive than I am then. They sign the contracts because they are at their wits end how to support their families with their good for nothing layabout husbands.


+1. and maybe I am not the flavour of the month, but I always take exception to those 'labour rights movement' type ..

Like I saw in an asian country nearby .. a manufacturing business was set up there, once the staff are trained, and paid atleast 10 times or more than what they got before, and business goes well, the militants go on strike demanding more and then the business shuts down, and then the people go back to doing what they were doing before, or back to doing nothing ..

In Singapore context, essentially, as I mentioned in another thread, you force the employer to pay more, so that there are lesser employers, and ah, yes, so about a 100,000 maids can be jobless. And nobody forced them to come here ..

PS: back home in my country, my uncle was running a tea estate. His estate was paying one of the highest daily wage in the country, almost twice as neighbouring estates on top of a whole heap of benefits .. including shuttle for school children, free medical, paid maternity, and all for a 100 acre property, compared to the other thousand odd acre properties those were very much unheard of ..

You wanna know what happened ? The 'communist' guys set the workers to revolt for more pay. My uncle shut down the factory, and he was being sued for 'depriving the livelihood of workers', and soon, he sold off the estate, and now the workers are being paid 'salary on par' ...i.e. half of what they got before, by the new owners ..

Market forces and economics yeah ???

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 12:34 pm

For exploitation you need somebody who willingly takes advantage of another somebody's misfortune or unfavorable circumstances. If a maid has no other options to provide some basic support for her family than to come to Singapore and her employer knowing about this would offer her lower than average salary - this would be exploitation, but if she has chosen to come here having some other (sufficient) options in her country just because she would be better paid in Singapore this is IMHO not an exploitation.
At least technically.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 12:57 pm

Which is exactly what I'm talking about. They know the situation here and they sign for it, knowing it is a distinct possibility. It's only exploitation if they "don't" know about it. I daresay, it would be virtually impossible not to know about it. This especially considering the voice the Indo government is giving to the abuse. They are doing it willingly.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 1:28 pm

Yawn! so figure of speech, your contract that says you work 8 hrs a day, and you are made to work 10 or 12 hrs without compensation is not exploitation? I mean what is so complicated here, is it the English language!
It clearly states!
Take advantage of, selfishly make use of; manipulate; use to the greatest possible advantage is exploitation.

'labour rights movement'
Don't talk crap, this has nothing to do with with labour movements, it's more to with people that cannot defend stand on their own two feet because of fear or weak characters.

You, SMS and myself could walk off the job anytime of day if we disagreed, but their are those with weak characters that cannot stand up for their own selves. Christ this has all blown out of all proportions because of the word exploitation, it's a them and us discussion farm owners and slaves and the worry of losing a business OMG what has happened to humanity.
Last edited by ksl on Sat, 01 Oct 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 1:35 pm

ksl wrote:Yawn! so figure of speech, your contract that says you work 8 hrs a day, and you are made to work 10 or 12 hrs without compensation is not exploitation? I mean what is so complicated here, is it the English language!
It clearly states!
Take advantage of, selfishly make use of; manipulate; use to the greatest possible advantage is exploitation.


Which makes me ask ... Have you seen a maid contract ?? :D :D

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Postby ksl » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 1:45 pm

ecureilx wrote:
ksl wrote:Yawn! so figure of speech, your contract that says you work 8 hrs a day, and you are made to work 10 or 12 hrs without compensation is not exploitation? I mean what is so complicated here, is it the English language!
It clearly states!
Take advantage of, selfishly make use of; manipulate; use to the greatest possible advantage is exploitation.


Which makes me ask ... Have you seen a maid contract ?? :D :D
Yes our maid was on a contract!

But all this superiority of landowners and farm boys is nothing new, in fact they have often been the worst offenders in many countries what goes around comes around eventually! Though it's unfortunate for good employers to have to suffer because of a minority of exploiters, which is normally the case, when as you say the labour grps get involved.
Last edited by ksl on Sat, 01 Oct 2011 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 1:55 pm

ksl wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
ksl wrote:Yawn! so figure of speech, your contract that says you work 8 hrs a day, and you are made to work 10 or 12 hrs without compensation is not exploitation? I mean what is so complicated here, is it the English language!
It clearly states!
Take advantage of, selfishly make use of; manipulate; use to the greatest possible advantage is exploitation.


Which makes me ask ... Have you seen a maid contract ?? :D :D
Yes our maid was on a contract!


If your maid had such terms specified, it was wrong FOR YOU TO HAVE MADE HER WORK LONGER :D :D

The standard contract doesn't specify the working hours, atleast when I had maids employed under me ...

Anyway, the main thing is .. who needs the work more ? the employee or employer ? While my words are not to condone the abuse (if such exists), let me put it this way .. when I was in a Shipping firm, it was normal for people to work until 7 or 8, especially as most of our charters were from Europe .. and one day I asked my big boss, if that's fair to indirectly make people work longer hours .. Nice British guy he was, and he replied with a smile "well, you can decide whether you need this job or not .. " :D And he went on to clarify that it is an abuse when you are not paid, or were told x $ and paid y $ ... and the company willingly didn't force you to work late, and I can always walk out at 6 and then find a lot of unattended work in the morning ... and a lot of fellow workers unhappy about my unattended work ...

Simple .... yeah ??

well, I maybe sued for saying this, but it is not the Singapore Govt's doing or the employers doing that a fair number of maids do not earn enough at the end of their contract ... and the problem exists at the source of supply ...

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 01 Oct 2011 2:01 pm

ksl wrote:But all this superiority of landowners and farm boys is nothing new, in fact the worst offenders in many countries what goes around comes around eventually! Though it's unfortunate for good employers to have to suffer because of a minority of exploiters, which is normally the case, when as you say the labour grps get involved.


The reality is, a minority of the employers have 'spare' cash .. and are affluent enough to afford a maid or two, while a majority are playing and adjusting the numbers and fixing it .. like a colleague, who's Myanmar maid wanted to go back for a holiday, after 6 months here, as she was homesick. He paid for her ticket, and sent her back, and is struggling to balance his budget to get another maid to take care of his two kids ... while his wife is at work .. and had to fall on his parents and in-laws to help out .. and he feels upset that he has to seek help, being a proud and self reliant guy he is ...

If you been to the forum where employers complain when the maid buys expensive clothes etc.. you know what I am talking about .. though some of the comments in such forum are ridiculous .. but, when the boss shops in NTUC, the maid insists on 10 $ meal .. it's bound to give way sometimes .. sometimes ..


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