Perfection

[earthfriendly]

http://www.danoah.com/2010/09/disease-c ... ction.html



I like being real. Not perfect. And it is getting easier with age. I enjoy getting old. Yes my belly bulges out more with each passing year but the wisdom I gain is priceless.

I like listening to other people, real stories, their real lives. I like being non-judgmental but can't help being judgmental sometimes, especially when people make stupid ( ) decisions about their lives. There is a direct inverse relationship. The less judgmental I am, the happier I become.

Some (luckily not all) of my mom friends place a lot of emphasis on table manners. A few families went on Teppanyaki dinner. The chef was done at our table and the show started at the next table. The kids immediately tried to get up closer to watch the show one more time. Immediately the other moms ordered the kids back to their chair. I was the only one allowing it and seeing how futile it was, soon the other moms just let the kids be. My explanation to a mom. They are naturally curious and when the chef was shaping the fried rice into a heart and making it beat, turning layers of onions into a volcano and steaming choo choo train, how could a child say no. Plus they are standing on a narrow aisle by the wall and not getting in anybody's way. I am not about to start a new trend with these moms but I don't want to put a brake on my kids curiousity. It brings immense happiness to me and my kids when they are so enthralled and engaged with life itself. Me not gonna spoil it for them.

I don't expect my kids to sit thru a restuarant meal quietly for 1.5 hours. Sometimes, they play with the straws, napkins, cutleries or each other. So long as they are not creating a din and disturbing others, I am OK. My 8 yo squat on her chair in the restuarnat. She is in between stages - booster and adult size chairs. Sitting prim and proper would be quite uncomfortable for her. Some of the tables are too oversized even for myself and I end up resting my boobs on the table .

I don't stress so much over manners myself. It can vary across cultures. The word "Toilet" is uncouth in USA but in SG you see those "Toilet" signs everywhere. I am more about teaching the kids respect. And for the most part you can feel wheather a person is being respectful or not.

A friend using the nude beach commented fat and old people should stay away. I couldn't help but remind people that the fat and the old have as much right to use the nude beach too. They may not look "perfect" but they share the sames needs, like everyone else.

[sundaymorningstaple]

+10 ^^^^^

[x9200]

I don't expect my kids to sit thru a restuarant meal quietly for 1.5 hours. Sometimes, they play with the straws, napkins, cutleries or each other. So long as they are not creating a din and disturbing others, I am OK. My 8 yo squat on her chair in the restuarnat. She is in between stages - booster and adult size chairs. Sitting prim and proper would be quite uncomfortable for her. Some of the tables are too oversized even for myself and I end up resting my boobs on the table .

The problem is different people think different things when it comes to what they consider to be disturbing to the others and this is especially when it comes to their children. Personally I would probably ask the people at the other table if they don't mind my children watching the show (if it was really a close distance). Also knowing how children behave I would avoid taking them to a restaurant where they may disturb the other guests.

[earthfriendly]

The problem is different people think different things when it comes to what they consider to be disturbing to the others and this is especially when it comes to their children. Personally I would probably ask the people at the other table if they don't mind my children watching the show (if it was really a close distance). Also knowing how children behave I would avoid taking them to a restaurant where they may disturb the other guests.

I did not think of that. Each person has different need for privacy level and it can be rude staring into somebody else's dining area. In this case , the mood was boisterous and festive and the other table consisted of 3 separate parties. We did not have to share table with strangers as our party occupied the entire table and spill over.

[earthfriendly]

Mike's story "It took me 13 years to admit to myself that I'm gay. Another two and a half to admit to my friends, another year and a half to admit to my parents. Most of my family still doesn't know."

How many "Mikes" does it take for us, as a society, to become more acceptable and tolerant of people who look and act differently from ourselves?

[ksl]

Tolerance and respect are the words of wisdom it works both ways, unfortunately it doesn't always happen. One normally defends their own space and rightly so!

[Mary Hatch Bailey]

I am a big fan of table manners. I was raised that way and I raised my kids that way. Perfection was never the goal however, that never even occurred to me. Social conventions help let people know what to do in new situations. If, as a professional, you took a potential ad exec, for example out to dinner and he or she had terrible table manners (ate with their mouth open, with their face in their plate, both elbows planted in the space of the diners next to them while yelling on a cell phone) ~ I think you'd remember how gross the experience was and not anything wonderful they might have said.

Sit up straight, napkin in lap, use please and thank you, chew with your mouth closed, that pretty much covers it, and I'm all for it.

New trends in parenting tends to deemphasize standards of behavior, everyone's child is 'gifted', all entitled to 'express themselves', all a 'different kind of learner'.

If I'm in a restaurant that is not Chuck E. Cheeze, and I can hear your child above the other diners, then you're not doing your job as a parent.
These kids grow up and do things like:

join the free communal breakfast at the Hilton without wearing a shirt or shoes*

sit on the table at Barnes & Noble while reading and eating with shoes on*

eat bent over, with their hair dragging in their plate at a swanky restaurant*

Again, it's not about perfection. Between perfection and some semblance of good manners there is a big area to deal with.

*All witnessed on a recent road trip

[nakatago]

ate with their mouth open, with their face in their plate, both elbows planted in the space of the diners next to them while yelling on a cell phone)

Now, where have I seen these before? Oh, right...

[Strong Eagle]

I think it was Miss Manners that said something like: Manners are the social 'grease' that keeps society functioning.

Having said that, I agree with EF... too many bluenoses with a corncob up their arse, trying to proscribe casual social convention.

[earthfriendly]

MHB, I hear what you are saying. Ideally good manners do not need to conflict with the other values but often people use it as a be all end all. They flang it as a sign of their own superiority. They are outwardly polite but their actions can be something else.

I have a hard time teaching my daughter to say "thank you" and "please". She told me these are just words, actions are more important. She is slowly coming around to it and understanding the importance of such things. What she lacks in social graces, she makes up for it with her big heart. She is very good at Monopoly game and upon seeing me getting bankrupt, she would cut me slacks and tried to offer me opportunities to make "money" as it makes her sad to see me "poor". And it is just a game, not real life.

At a party in our house, another boy and her wanted some soda, and there was only one left in the fridge. She offered it to the boy. And soda, along with candys and ice creams, are the "loves" of her life. The boy's dad was touched and make the kids split the soda.

[x9200]

Many if not a majority of the manners are about not to monopolize the space (physically, audibly etc.). Some other are more culture dependent. Anything that goes beyond what fork to what fish is vastly a common sense thing.
I have a bit of a problem with these cultural ones. On one hand I really don't like people going to a more fancy restaurant in shorts or ripped jeans but I see no objective reason (apart from my feelings) why they should not.

[Vaucluse]

Manner are vital and whoever doesn't think they are doesn't have any!


Sadly for us, people in this region have a different perception of what constitutes manners . . . if they have ever heard of them . . . too many examples to cite, perhaps I've been here too long.

[BillyB]

There should be separate feeding troughs in sound proof rooms for some of the locals in Singapore.......I've heard quieter dining and better manners on a farm.

My personal favourite is spitting out shell fish on the floor, snorting really loudly, spitting and clearing ones throat, and talking loudly on the phone whilst walking past every other table in the restaurant.

[sundaymorningstaple]

And here we go again................

[Vaucluse]

Hi SMS!

Remember . . . what is old news to us is something new to others