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Appealing ICA decisions??

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darpy
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Appealing ICA decisions??

Postby darpy » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:31 am

Not sure if this is the right place, but this is my situation:

I am 31yo from Australia, and my wife is Singaporean.

we are both educated, I hold a PhD, we have enough passive income that I dont need to work, own our own property in Singapore (in wifes names) and my wife also has a job paying $10k per month.


We applied to ICA for a dependant pass under spousal application when first arrived (and my wife obviously wasnt working). Because of this we only got 6 months. Now she works and my pass has expired, I applied again, and again they would only grant me 6 months.

We phoned to ask why and were told they would get back to us. This never happened twice. We sent emails and the same result.
It has been suggested that the government does not like to give longer terms to people deemed to be 'dependents' and possible liabilities.

This is an issue because nowhere will give me insurance unless I have a minimum of 12 months visa.

It feels like we are talking to a wall when we deal with ICA. Is there anything we can do? advice greatly appreciated.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:48 am

Might have something to do with the fact that you are a 31 year old Phd who isn't bothering to get a job. I know this shouldn't matter one iota, and it wouldn't in a western country, but Singapore is funny that way as I'm sure you have found out. It probably look like you are just "along for the ride" as you haven't applied for PR (family ties) nor gotten a job, and you are letting your wife work. Is your passive income taxable to Singapore........

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Postby darpy » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:51 am

the reason I dont get PR is because I would have to serve National Service (I have already looked into this).

I also considered the possibility that the rejection is due to the fact I dont work, but if that were true it would make the whole point of a dependents pass redundant as I would then have to apply for an EP (you can get a DP for upto 10 years, so there must be alot here possibly living and not working).


The reason I mention the PhD is because I hear from the government often that they want educated people here and want them to have children, which is exactly why my wife and I returned here.

also, we have rental property here that generates passive income, so this should be considered income for their purposes i would imagine.

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:16 pm

darpy wrote:the reason I dont get PR is because I would have to serve National Service (I have already looked into this).

I also considered the possibility that the rejection is due to the fact I dont work, but if that were true it would make the whole point of a dependents pass redundant as I would then have to apply for an EP (you can get a DP for upto 10 years, so there must be alot here possibly living and not working).


The reason I mention the PhD is because I hear from the government often that they want educated people here and want them to have children, which is exactly why my wife and I returned here.

also, we have rental property here that generates passive income, so this should be considered income for their purposes i would imagine.


Funny, why do you worry about serving NS at the age of 31 ? First generation PRs dont' go through NS, especially if they are above the NS age .. unless they are children of PR.

As for the other stuff, like your renting property, and that you want to make children here, but not anchor yourself here .. you are just building up a case for the govt to not like you .. (ah, that's my 2 cents opinion .. don't be offended .. )

They want people with qualification anchored here, not be visitors ..

With a PHD, wouldn't it be easy to get one of the many Research assistant jobs, which also smoothes the way for EP/PR ?


PS: Living here and not working ?? I wish I could have married a woman who would let me do that .. man .. what a life I want ..

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Postby Saint » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:17 pm

darpy wrote:the reason I dont get PR is because I would have to serve National Service (I have already looked into this).


In theory you would be liable to do NS, in practice, no :wink:

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Postby Saint » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:21 pm

ecureilx wrote:Funny, why do you worry about serving NS at the age of 31 ? First generation PRs dont' go through NS, especially if they are above the NS age .. unless they are children of PR.


PR via family ties he would be liable for NS :roll:

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Postby darpy » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:28 pm

trust me, I have looked into this and spoken to many many people about the PR and NS thing, as it would have solved all the issues.

In the end I spoke to someone who handles this, and he informed me that I would have to go for a couple of weeks a year, and being an older foreigner, they would just assign me a desk job.


As for the not working thing, I originally intended to pursue research in a position at NUS, but on closer inspection it wasn't really my cup of tea so I am just finishing some research now and will most likely find a job next year (in about 12 months). I am guessing that will be a whole other lot of problems for me.

p.s despite how this thread may sound, it certainly IS NOT fun being at home all day everyday in a foreign country where I know nobody, while my wife works. Once I finish my current research I cannot wait to get out and find a job (I would trade places with her in a heartbeat).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:39 pm

Yep, sure would, but as Saint will tell you, normally you would get a wavier from NS but you still have to register and in theory you could have to do it. Only 2nd gen comes from PR gained via the PTS scheme.

OP apparently doesn't have any income at all as it would appear that the rental income is all in his wife's name as well. Looks like he riding to me and I'm sure that's what it looks like to ICA.

Dependent's Passes are given to EP holders as they are here only temporarily in theory and make it easier for the EP holder to maintain (remember they are theoretically the Foreign Talent the the country wants). On the other hand a non-PR spouse who isn't working and doesn't appear to want to work just takes up space and contributes nothing.

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Postby ksl » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 1:10 pm

Surely he's mistaken about the dependant pass, as he only qualifies for the LTVSP.

31 male Singapore wife, already looked into NS, got to be flagged on entry I would think, no sign of PR application so he's obviously avoiding the possibility of NS. PhD are 2 a penny without experience, it's been the Chinese craze for years to take a PhD without any work experience at all.

You say you are Australian Citizen, but your race is also a factor to take into account, imagine if you are North Korean :lol: Alarm bells would ring for sure ICA all of a sudden becomes the CIA :lol:

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Postby darpy » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 1:27 pm

ksl wrote:Surely he's mistaken about the dependant pass, as he only qualifies for the LTVSP.

31 male Singapore wife, already looked into NS, got to be flagged on entry I would think, no sign of PR application so he's obviously avoiding the possibility of NS. PhD are 2 a penny without experience, it's been the Chinese craze for years to take a PhD without any work experience at all.

You say you are Australian Citizen, but your race is also a factor to take into account, imagine if you are North Korean :lol: Alarm bells would ring for sure ICA all of a sudden becomes the CIA :lol:



I have work experience as both a lecturer, and also as a researcher, I have also worked for the Australian government. It is only since I came to Singapore permanently that I have stopped working.

also, I am caucasian.

but the gist of my thread was not necessarily to ascertain whether I am lazy or not, it was more to canvas experience in dealing with ICA and appealing their decisions. e.g. they dont make clear whether a decision is final, and nowhere can I find information regarding an 'appeals process'.

further, as we can prove my financial independence, I dont see why it is relevant to a decision on my visa whether my lifestyle choice is bent toward working. I could understand the need for work if I was coming here alone with nothing.

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 1:48 pm

darpy wrote:In the end I spoke to someone who handles this, and he informed me that I would have to go for a couple of weeks a year, and being an older foreigner, they would just assign me a desk job.


at 31 you think you are old ?? dang .. at my age, I should be ancient, never mind SMS and others (antique ??? )

further, as we can prove my financial independence, I dont see why it is relevant to a decision on my visa whether my lifestyle choice is bent toward working.


Living on rental income is not considered proof of your financial independence .. as a former employer of mine, from my country found out ..

The ICA took trouble to explain to him that they are not bothered or are going to find out if you are going to explain how you get the rental, or whether you have tenants all the time, or you will sell the property and re-invest in something etc. etc. .. no, that's not their problem. Unless you show a couple of million $ in the bank / in fixed deposit / in Govt approved deposits ..

They need to see if you are 'gainfully employed',. i.e. able to get paid for work ..

As for the question why it is relevant or not, this is Singapore, and this is their rules ..

in light heart, I can tell you, how many guys I have bumped into, who claim to own half of Nepal, or Half of India, or Half of x country .. yah, but they too had enough problem getting PR here, and they packed and went back ...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 3:36 pm

There is an appeals process when applying for PR. Other than that, I know of no other process in ICA for other types of visas. Normally immigration officers are gods unto themselves, just like they are in Australia and the US, where I am originally from. They don't have to answer to anyone. Appeals, in this country, unless you can present NEW data that is relevant to the case, is doomed before applying for it. Another problem you have is the Asian (Singaporean) perspective. Singapore is a patriarchal society. It is in that vein that a lot of their decisions/mindsets are framed. As the male, it is assumed that the female will follow the male, rather than vice versa. Therefore, the fact that you have not shown any sign or attempt to "root" yourself here (rental property that is not in your name doesn't count one iota) would lead the officer to think you stay here is only meant to be temporary.

As they ARE giving you LTVP's, you don't actually have anything to complain about or appeal. Duration of LTVP? You gonna complain about the duration? If I were an officer, I'd laugh you out of the building. A lot of people are currently only getting 3 months. We have also seen cases where EPEC's were issued and the applicant was denied getting an LTVP even with an approved EPEC already in hand.

fergeddit.

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Postby Saint » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 3:51 pm

darpy wrote:trust me, I have looked into this and spoken to many many people about the PR and NS thing, as it would have solved all the issues.

In the end I spoke to someone who handles this, and he informed me that I would have to go for a couple of weeks a year, and being an older foreigner, they would just assign me a desk job.


Of course they would have said you would be called up every year but I never heard of it actually happening. I never called up and I know a few PRs under family ties early 30s and they've never been called up for 2 week's desk job.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 20 Sep 2011 8:15 pm

darpy wrote:The reason I mention the PhD is because I hear from the government often that they want educated people here and want them to have children, which is exactly why my wife and I returned here.

also, we have rental property here that generates passive income, so this should be considered income for their purposes i would imagine.

They used to have the idea of engineering the society via this kind of "genetic" approach but firstly, I am not sure whether this is still the case and secondly I am not sure if the interracial marriages were ever a part of this. Right now, I would say the demand for highly educated people is to let them to contribute to the economy by the transfer of knowledge. The income comes from your wife (both passive and salared) so you do not contribute any way to the society and economy. I am afraid, regardless your motives, from an external perspective your living in Singapore looks pretty parasitic.

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Postby Saint » Wed, 21 Sep 2011 1:06 am

x9200 wrote:
darpy wrote:The reason I mention the PhD is because I hear from the government often that they want educated people here and want them to have children, which is exactly why my wife and I returned here.

also, we have rental property here that generates passive income, so this should be considered income for their purposes i would imagine.

They used to have the idea of engineering the society via this kind of "genetic" approach but firstly, I am not sure whether this is still the case and secondly I am not sure if the interracial marriages were ever a part of this. Right now, I would say the demand for highly educated people is to let them to contribute to the economy by the transfer of knowledge. The income comes from your wife (both passive and salared) so you do not contribute any way to the society and economy. I am afraid, regardless your motives,
from an external perspective your living in Singapore looks pretty parasitic.


I'm very surprised at this posting especially from a mod as its saying that quite a few posters on this forum are parasites. According to you when I got my PR I was actually a parasite! And so were a few friends of mine, I'll let them know.

There is no way the OP is a parasite unless you also SMS a parasite for many years before he lived here permanently??

I'm probably going to censored/banned for say this but can the experienced mods help?


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