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Agency Maid and WP

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Agency Maid and WP

Postby dazzlebabe » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 2:53 pm

I have a part time helper from a new agency and I asked for a copy of her ID. I noticed she is on a WP and is addressed to another owner (not under agency).

IF she gets caught, will I also get into trouble?
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Re: Agency Maid and WP

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 4:39 pm

dazzlebabe wrote:I have a part time helper from a new agency and I asked for a copy of her ID. I noticed she is on a WP and is addressed to another owner (not under agency).

IF she gets caught, will I also get into trouble?


Bluntly put, despite said maid swearing and declaring that she is allowed to work part time, IT IS ILLEGAL.

Of late a few enterprising agencies have popped up, aggressively seeking 'part time work' for maids, and all maids are with employers who don't bother what their maid does .. and they are ok with the maid freelancing ..

Few years ago, MOM woke up and sent a whole lot of teams to trap maids outside condos and private apartments and gave warning (as far as I know, none were deported) and the 'part time' working stopped.

Caveat emptor ..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 5:02 pm

If you get caught, you will probably be unceremoniously booted out of Singapore or if you are a Singaporean, you will probably be at least fined and what ever else they do for hiring illegal workers.

Taken from the MOM website:

Illegal employment/deployment

Under the existing Work Permit conditions, foreign domestic workers can only be employed for the performance of domestic chores for their employers, at the residential addresses stated on the Work Permits. Foreign domestic workers may only be deployed to work at another address if they are there to perform duties pertaining to the employer's children or elderly parents.

Employers can be charged for illegally employing or deploying a foreign domestic worker.

Penalties for Offenders

The penalty for illegal employment without a valid Work Permit is a fine equivalent to between two and four years of the FDW levy, and/or imprisonment for up to one year. For subsequent convictions, the errant employer will face mandatory imprisonment.

Employers who illegally deploy their FDWs can be fined up to $5,000. In addition, the errant employer will be permanently barred from employing FDWs. The $5,000 security deposit posted with the MOM might also be forfeited.


So you might not be deported, but you will probably be fined.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 5:42 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you get caught, you will probably be unceremoniously booted out of Singapore or if you are a Singaporean, you will probably be at least fined and what ever else they do for hiring illegal workers.

>>

So you might not be deported, but you will probably be fined.


Correct: maybe those days MOM was not so keen, but, if I believe my friends running maid agencies, they have told me that MOM has repeatedly reminded them to ensure not to assist to process WP for maids who are solely planning to do Freelancing .. and if caught, the agency too gets a warning / demerit points for not properly checking ..

And a few years ago, a lot of maids were wiling to put up 5,000 or more, for a 'sponsor' .. no thanks, even if i am broke, I am aint gonna tempt my fate with the law ..

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Postby dazzlebabe » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 5:51 pm

Thanks. But I did hire her via an Agency. So that means I have to make sure the (licensed) agency is hiring legit workers? That defeats the purpose of hiring via an agency then!
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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 5:54 pm

dazzlebabe wrote:Thanks. But I did hire her via an Agency. So that means I have to make sure the (licensed) agency is hiring legit workers? That defeats the purpose of hiring via an agency then!


ok .. let me give you the inside info ..

a few agencies 'hire' out maids, when they are between employers, or the employer has returned them to the agency and the agency is keeping her under the old employer till a transfer employer is found.

Still, it is ILLEGAL, unless the place of work is denoted as "AGENCY NAME"

MOM doesn't put that thing called "place of work/employer" for no reason

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 7:25 pm

I have some daubs.

MOM page:

Work Permit (general)
Ensure that the Foreign Worker does not engage in any form of:
- Employment other than that stated in the WP; or
- Freelance arrangement or self-employment.

and as quoted this for the maids:
Work Permit (FDW)
Under the existing Work Permit conditions, foreign domestic workers can only be employed for the performance of domestic chores for their employers, at the residential addresses stated on the Work Permits.

There is nothing about the address for the first case. IMHO it would not be practical to have such restriction for i.e. construction workers.

I know a case where one lady (PR) had her own company and she hired a
cleaner (WP) to provide services at ppl's homes. Seems legal to me at least as per the info given at the MOM's webpage. She (PR) was registered also in some agency.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 8:04 pm

x9200 wrote:I have some daubs.

MOM page:

Work Permit (general)
Ensure that the Foreign Worker does not engage in any form of:
- Employment other than that stated in the WP; or
- Freelance arrangement or self-employment.

and as quoted this for the maids:
Work Permit (FDW)
Under the existing Work Permit conditions, foreign domestic workers can only be employed for the performance of domestic chores for their employers, at the residential addresses stated on the Work Permits.

There is nothing about the address for the first case. IMHO it would not be practical to have such restriction for i.e. construction workers.

I know a case where one lady (PR) had her own company and she hired a
cleaner (WP) to provide services at ppl's homes. Seems legal to me at least as per the info given at the MOM's webpage. She (PR) was registered also in some agency.


Maid permit, though classified as WP, falls under a slightly different set of rules.

If you have seen the maid permit, the 'employers details' are printed there .. as long as a maid is under WP, there have been cases where the maids were arrested for their working in their employers own coffee shop, taking care of their employer's grocery store ..

SMS can affirm that ..

If your PR friend is hiring out maids, unless she has express permission from MOM and her permit states the agency as the employer, IT IS ILLEGAL


one of the oft quoted complaint when it comes to maid abuse is,, cases where employers used their maid to do dish-washing in their own coffee shop, or take care of grocery, or make the maid work in the boss' bar, even though it is clean and decent bar and her job is to wait on tables etc. etc.. and when MOM conducts raids in Lucky plaza, a fair number of these maids are shunted over and employers fined - though if the employer of the maid in the shop IS NOT HER OWN EMPLOYER, she is deemed to have been freelancing, and sent packing home ...

As I am writing this, a friend of mine in MOM mentioned that MOM did round up a fair number of such crowd last week or so .. let me look up if there is any news release to that effect ..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 8:42 pm

x9200, you didn't bother to read the thread! All you did was parrot what I'd already posted from MOM. :P

Bet they've gotten the message? :lol:

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 8:44 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:x9200, you didn't bother to read the thread! All you did was parrot what I'd already posted from MOM. :P

Bet they've gotten the message? :lol:


Gee .. me too speed read your post ..

your post has the specific do's and don'ts .. couldn't get any clearer than that I gues :D :D

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 9:06 pm

Eeee, I read the thread and posted some additional info including a piece what you did earlier for comparison - are you sure you read my post with understanding? :P
My point is: how do you know what kind of WP the person the OP hired actually has? If this is a general WP it can be legal. Standard WP also has the employer's address on it.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 9:28 pm

Because, if an agency has gotten a standard WP, then it means they've lied to MOM regarding job duties. MOM doesn't give WP's for domestic cleaners, only FDW WP's. The other job description are "cleaners" specifically designed for estate cleaners that you find in all HDB housing estates. If MOM catches them, they are up the creek with a fat fine and possible black listing by MOM.

Standard WP has the employers address, true, but the can be assigned to work on the agencies clients workplaces (not residences) as maintenance type personnel (cleaners). My WP's all have my main address but they work on different locations throughout the day, but not as domestic workers.

It would be too easy that way. There would be no FDW's as all the agencies would keep them under their employ and the rake off would be even greater.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 9:51 pm

Now clear. I guess makes sort of sense - if allowed it might be a backdoor allowing the maids to compete with SGs/PRs on their salary levels.

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 10:33 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Because, if an agency has gotten a standard WP, then it means they've lied to MOM regarding job duties. MOM doesn't give WP's for domestic cleaners, only FDW WP's. The other job description are "cleaners" specifically designed for estate cleaners that you find in all HDB housing estates. If MOM catches them, they are up the creek with a fat fine and possible black listing by MOM.


Exactly :D :D

Should I say "you rest my case" :D :D Maybe I muddled up my words describing the same ..

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Postby dazzlebabe » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 10:58 am

Will change agencies and go back to the original reliable one!
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