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how can a illegitimate child be singaporean

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therat
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Postby therat » Mon, 15 Aug 2011 9:15 pm

TS 2nd post already mention,
BUT is born in Vietnam..holding a vietnam birth cert.


Right after TS 2nd post, I did my 1st post.

I saw his 2nd posting about child born in Vietnam.
That's why I say.. TS child will not be Singaporean

I think I know what is the problem.
I jump my thought too fast.

My 1st post is telling TS.
Father is Singaporean. Same as his case.
Mother is non-Singaporean. Same as his case.
Both not married. Same as his case
Even the child is born in Singapore. It does not make the Child a Singaporean.
What make him think that his child born oversea will be Singaporean.

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Postby therat » Mon, 15 Aug 2011 9:23 pm

mativo wrote:sigh...so my child got no chance to be a SC if i dont get marriage with the mother right....?


It's too late.

You need to be legal marriage with the mother before the child was born.
Not after

After .. No count.

Even now, you marry with the mother, your child also cannot be Singaporean.

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Postby therat » Mon, 15 Aug 2011 9:27 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:therat, according to the article, it doesn't indicate whether the father was known or not. As no mention of the father was made, I have to assume that the father was not known in that particular case.

This case is different. The child might have been born out of wedlock, but that doesn't mean the child's father isn't known. I don't believe they have to be married to accept parentage of the child. Therefore, if the child's father is known at the time of birth and the name is registered by the father, then, the child would be Singaporean if born here. However, if born in Malaysia, then the child would naturally have the citizenship of the mother. This especially so if the child were a male.

If you will look at a copy of a Singapore Birth Certificate, you will note that it only asks for the mother's particulars and the father's particulars. It does not require a marriage license number or even a statement requiring a marriage certificate. The mother and the father need not be married to produce a baby. But if the father is known and registered as such. The child will be Singaporean at birth regardless of the mother's nationality.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 23/1/.html

Quote from the above link
his father is Singaporean and that the boy was born here as well.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:28 pm

fair enough. I also multitasking at work as well, often what seems like a minute is 20! :oops: my error.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 16 Aug 2011 8:31 am

x9200 wrote:
therat wrote:


For this case, I think government link will be better instead of Wikipedia.

Probably yes :)

Hmm, but then this is the Constitution's article ICA refers to:

122. —
(1) Subject to clauses (2) and (3), a person born outside Singapore after 16th September 1963 shall be a citizen of Singapore by descent if, at the time of his birth —
(a) where the person is born before the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, his father is a citizen of Singapore, by birth or registration; and
(b) where the person is born on or after the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, either his father or mother is a citizen of Singapore, by birth, registration or descent.

(2) A person born outside Singapore shall not be a citizen of Singapore by descent by virtue of clause (1) unless —
(a) his birth is registered in the prescribed manner at the Registry of Citizens or at a diplomatic or consular mission of Singapore within one year, or such longer period as the Government permits, after its occurrence; and
(b) he would not acquire the citizenship of the country in which he was born by reason of his birth in that country where —
(i) in the case of a person born before the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, his father is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth; or
(ii) in the case of a person born on or after the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, either his father or mother is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth.

(3) Without prejudice to clause (2), a person born outside Singapore of a father or mother who is a citizen by descent at the time of his birth shall not be a citizen of Singapore by descent by virtue of clause (1) unless the parent who is the citizen by descent has lawfully resided in Singapore —
(a) for a period of, or for periods amounting in the aggregate to, not less than 5 years before that person’s birth; or
(b) for a period of, or for periods amounting in the aggregate to, not less than 2 years during the period of 5 years immediately preceding that person’s birth.
(4) A person who, being a minor, becomes a citizen of Singapore by descent shall cease to be a citizen of Singapore on attaining the age of 22 years unless within 12 months after he attains the age of 21 years he takes the Oath of Renunciation, Allegiance and Loyalty in the form set out in the Second Schedule and where the Government so requires divests himself of any foreign citizenship or nationality.


I don't see a word related to the lawful marriage so where does this condition come from?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 16 Aug 2011 8:59 am

therat wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:therat, according to the article, it doesn't indicate whether the father was known or not. As no mention of the father was made, I have to assume that the father was not known in that particular case.

This case is different. The child might have been born out of wedlock, but that doesn't mean the child's father isn't known. I don't believe they have to be married to accept parentage of the child. Therefore, if the child's father is known at the time of birth and the name is registered by the father, then, the child would be Singaporean if born here. However, if born in Malaysia, then the child would naturally have the citizenship of the mother. This especially so if the child were a male.

If you will look at a copy of a Singapore Birth Certificate, you will note that it only asks for the mother's particulars and the father's particulars. It does not require a marriage license number or even a statement requiring a marriage certificate. The mother and the father need not be married to produce a baby. But if the father is known and registered as such. The child will be Singaporean at birth regardless of the mother's nationality.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 23/1/.html

Quote from the above link
his father is Singaporean and that the boy was born here as well.


In the article you linked, the following is a key statement:

The foster parents, however, are claiming on their Facebook page that the boy should be Singaporean, as they claim that his father is Singaporean and that the boy was born here as well.


Apparently, there is no father listed on the birth certificate, because, if there had been, they wouldn't have had to claim. (you need to quote the full phrase so as to put it into actual context) In fact, the child would never have been put into foster care in the first place, but with the father instead. I still say marriage is not a factor, and x9200 constitutional quote supports it as well.

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Postby therat » Tue, 16 Aug 2011 9:12 am

Make our life simple.

TS, can you pay a visit to Singapore Embassy @ Vietnam or give ICA a call.
To check whether your child can be SC or not.

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Postby beppi » Wed, 17 Aug 2011 6:15 am

I think all your discussions are moot:
The OP indicated that his child was born in Vietnam and got the citizenship there by birth. In that case (no matter if the parents were married or not) he/she cannot get Singapore citizenship by descent.

This is a classic case of Kiasuism gone mad: Screw up your child's citizenship (and thus chances in life) just because giving birth is cheaper there!

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Postby OkLah » Wed, 17 Aug 2011 6:40 am

beppi, from my reading of the clause it says that the child born overseas to a Singaporean parent would not be a citizen by descent if he obtained citizenship of the country of his birth by virtue of being born there only if the parent him/herself is a Singapore citizen by registration. I can confirm this is the case as several friends of mine whose wives have given birth in Australia have been able to obtain Singapore citizenship by descent even though their children were born as Australian citizens (the parents being permanent residents). However, this may not apply to the TS since he isn't lawfully married to the woman who bore his child.

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Postby manutdfan » Wed, 17 Aug 2011 4:33 pm

beppi wrote:I think all your discussions are moot:
The OP indicated that his child was born in Vietnam and got the citizenship there by birth. In that case (no matter if the parents were married or not) he/she cannot get Singapore citizenship by descent.


Incorrect. My daughter is a British citizen by birth, but by virtue of her mother being a Singaporean holds both passports (she's 3, so that's still allowed!)

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Postby mativo » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 2:27 pm

Hi All,

I a SC and my partner is Vietnam.

Thanks for all your answers..
I had check...
In order for the child be SC
- Parent must be marriage
- Child born in SG will be SC
- Child born in oversea will need to apply back in SG. (3-6mths processing)

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Postby therat » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 3:36 pm

mativo wrote:Hi All,

I a SC and my partner is Vietnam.

Thanks for all your answers..
I had check...
In order for the child be SC
- Parent must be marriage
- Child born in SG will be SC
- Child born in oversea will need to apply back in SG. (3-6mths processing)


Is it the pt 1 must meet before can talk abt pt 2 or pt 3?

If parent not marriage then Child born Singapore or Born Oversea, how?
Still can be SC?

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Postby mativo » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 5:24 pm

therat wrote:
mativo wrote:Hi All,

I a SC and my partner is Vietnam.

Thanks for all your answers..
I had check...
In order for the child be SC
- Parent must be marriage
- Child born in SG will be SC
- Child born in oversea will need to apply back in SG. (3-6mths processing)


Is it the pt 1 must meet before can talk abt pt 2 or pt 3?

If parent not marriage then Child born Singapore or Born Oversea, how?
Still can be SC?


Yes.If not marriage...the child can never be SC.

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Postby therat » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 8:15 pm

Thanks for clarify


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