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Another policy tightening is on the horizon :(

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:13 am

richie303 wrote:I know x and x has considerable skills, degree and experience in a field that is not taught in Singapore and is required (in a medical field).

The current rate for x's job is under the new threshold but above the old threshold of P2 pass. However, the skills are not available locally.


Nursing, if you are referring to, despite the foreigners being more qualified, is a bit of a tricky area, as there is no local qualification to compare with Nursing Degree .. hence the foreigners are still in the midst.

For those case, MOM has exceptions, and as SMS would attest to ...

And MOM doesn't like to publish 'exception' lest people demand the exceptions be made norm ..

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Postby bobypf » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 2:24 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Providing the salaries are not below S pass levels, they will, on renewal, provided they still qualify academically & experience wise, have their passes renewed but at a lower level. P2's will be downgraded to Q's and Qs to S passes. This could conceivably cause some inconvenience and even cause some losses, but at they are a private hospital, they will have no special dispensations.

Regarding niche occupations.....

The employees must FIRST qualify for the position with salary, academics & experience. If they can get past that hurdle, then the company has to justify why they need to have a foreigner (niche knowledge). But. The potential/employee has to first qualify.

Ultimately, the same thing that will happen with ANY private company if they cannot get sufficient help. They will move or close shop. Or, the stock holders will have to settle for smaller dividends. If they raise their prices too much, then they wont fill the beds if the government hospitals can still do it cheaper. But as long as there are expats, they will pay the increased prices, in the silly thought that private hospitals, cause they charge more, are better. Taint so. :-|


Ok, but I think it's time for me to ask something I've been wondering about for a long time. What is the purpose of this EP differentiation? Why are these different category of EPs? What's the difference for the employee or the company if the employee has Q1, P1 or P2? In any case you're given the right to work, aren't you? And there are no quotas for the different EP categories, so why did they put it this way?

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 2:28 pm

bobypf wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Providing the salaries are not below S pass levels, they will, on renewal, provided they still qualify academically & experience wise, have their passes renewed but at a lower level. P2's will be downgraded to Q's and Qs to S passes. This could conceivably cause some inconvenience and even cause some losses, but at they are a private hospital, they will have no special dispensations.

Regarding niche occupations.....

The employees must FIRST qualify for the position with salary, academics & experience. If they can get past that hurdle, then the company has to justify why they need to have a foreigner (niche knowledge). But. The potential/employee has to first qualify.

Ultimately, the same thing that will happen with ANY private company if they cannot get sufficient help. They will move or close shop. Or, the stock holders will have to settle for smaller dividends. If they raise their prices too much, then they wont fill the beds if the government hospitals can still do it cheaper. But as long as there are expats, they will pay the increased prices, in the silly thought that private hospitals, cause they charge more, are better. Taint so. :-|


Ok, but I think it's time for me to ask something I've been wondering about for a long time. What is the purpose of this EP differentiation? Why are these different category of EPs? What's the difference for the employee or the company if the employee has Q1, P1 or P2? In any case you're given the right to work, aren't you? And there are no quotas for the different EP categories, so why did they put it this way?


Aside from being a label-enthusiastic country, the grades allow you certain, ahem, "benefits":

Passes for Family Members

Employment Pass applicants may apply for the Dependant's Pass (DP) and/or Long Term Visit Pass (LTVP) for their family members. The DP/LTVP application and supporting documents may be submitted together with the Employment Pass application or separately.

Dependant's Pass

Both P and Q1 Pass holders can apply for a Dependant's Pass for their:

Spouse
Unmarried or legally adopted children under 21 years old
Long Term Visit Pass

P Pass holders can also apply for a Long Term Visit Pass for their:

Common-law Spouse
Unmarried daughters above 21 years old
Handicapped children above 21 years old
Step-children under 21 years old
Parents and parents-in-law


sauce: http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... fault.aspx

And as you already know, P1's don't need to prove their educational attainment.

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Postby bobypf » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 2:42 pm

nakatago wrote:And as you already know, P1's don't need to prove their educational attainment.


I see... So there's nothing really significant differentiating the categories... Yes, and I know about this P1 which is for tough motherfcukers with costumes and pale skin, drinking only small beers, and it's way out of my reach. As I am without a degree, my target would be only S or Q1 anyway.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 3:00 pm

bobypf wrote: I see... So there's nothing really significant differentiating the categories... Yes, and I know about this P1 which is for tough motherfcukers with costumes and pale skin, drinking only small beers, and it's way out of my reach. As I am without a degree, my target would be only S or Q1 anyway.


Correction: those on P1 must drink Only Single Malt :D :D no beer allowed .. unless they are having pool parties ;)

Well, when I was here on EP, and when the categories were introduced, it was a mad rush, especially among those who had family here, to appeal to MOM and ask for upgrade etc. as Q2 - (doesnt' exist anymore .. ) no DP, Q1, case by case, and P2 / P1, was not so stringent ..

Yea, for you, you see nothing in the categories, but a lot of long timers here would vouch .. when the P/Q system was brought in .. it meant a hell of a lot for a lot of people .. as to which category they got in..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 3:02 pm

Additionally, it's just one more way the government here has to pigeonhole you. That's why they have race & religion on your NRIC as well once you get PR or citizenship. By pre-categorizing you into different groups, it allows them the ability to continue to embrace their form of genetic engineering in the future. With the different abilities/levels of ability/education or entrepreneurship, it allows them to selectively approach certain individuals/families for invitation to become PR or eventually citizens. Of course this sometimes backfires on them but they still haven't learned that in order to avoid the myopia (both the eyes and the mindset) that infects the population here, you need diversity in the gene bank. The just haven't learned it yet.

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Postby BillyB » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 5:04 pm

ecureilx wrote:sorry to wade in later .. but Singaporeans, have found, they have 'voice'

in essence, they realised they can complain and complain loudly

like, the president election, you suddenly see guys demanding the president is not a mouth piece of PAP - though the just plainly forgot that PAP or not, the president's power is defined in the constitution .. and that's it ..

likewise, some of the comments I been hearing ..

- EPEC is an informal PR for foreigners

- S Pass holders are actually paid super high (Cant' blame the comment as certain nationalities, even low paid, dress super nice and make the natives suspect that the foreigner is getting paid more than the 1,800)

- the common grouse of locals: a lot of small time companies are 'charging' back the salary

- more often than enough, a lot of recruitment companies favour foreigners, for 'placement' fee ..

I been here long enough and am yet to see a lazy Singaporean .. atleast in my line of work or those I work with ..

But, after a couple of Tigers, they spill their emotions .. that suddenly a foreigner is appointed as their manager or senior, who seem to know nothing or is still groping in the dark .. (though the foreigner maybe earning lower than the junior is not obviously understood .. )

so, it goes much more than lip service ..

I can even refer some specific forums, where foreign staff had asked "my company pays me 1,800, but they transfer back 800, is that normal or should I ask them to deduct less" .. or "I have been placed in compulsory company accomodation, costing 500 $ a month, is there any option to break contract and stay on my own ?? "

I could go on ..

As a foreigner, it is not easy to pass judgement on locals .. A lot of locals who became jobless and had to switch jobs, from what I have seen, are primarily in F & B line .. where the locals were happy to work for the pay, and suddenly they had foreigners working for lesser pay or bosses preferrred foreigners as they latter in reality was paying back the boss .. et al ..

And the people whom I know, are really hard working, and after 10 plus years working in the 'night life' (Bar / restaurant) they were forced to give up their nocturnal work style ..

Tough calls ..


I'm curious to know how companies using commission only pay schemes, such as financial advisors and recruitment, get employment passes issued?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 5:42 pm

They are based on the base salary. Most, if not all, have a basic draw against commissions. There might be some on commission only but I've never personally met any, except for PR/local types.

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Postby ecureilx » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 7:59 pm

BillyB wrote:
ecureilx wrote:I'm curious to know how companies using commission only pay schemes, such as financial advisors and recruitment, get employment passes issued?


If any foreigner is on a commission only scheme, he is breaking the law somewhere .. or something is extremely fishy .. like those MLM guys who are on SVP and working their ass off ..

One of my employers placed me in "sales Engineer position" and offered me a low basic, plus, commission, and, since, before even i had joined i had lined and committed up sales volume of over 600K with a nett of 200K, and my commission worked out to atleast 50K ... so he decided to put an extremely low salary in EP form, and declared my 'take home' pay will exceed 60K .. plus plus ..

MOM said, "NO CAN DO, SALE MAY COME OR ANOTHER SARS MAY HIT .. AND WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IF HE TAKES HOME 1 MILLION, ALL THAT MATTERS IS BASIC .. "

After 4 rounds of appeals, and a lot of tears in MOM .. the MOM officer told that the only reason I am being rejected PROBABLY -as they don't dare give specific reasons - was due to a drastic drop in my basic, vs my previous employer .. my then employer grudgingly placed a higher basic salary and resubmitted, and my pass was approved in a week ..

PS: Footnote, said employer, never paid any of the commission due to me, even though I delivered my target, as he reminded me that he pays a higher basic and instead I should work my ass harder to double my Volume to 1,2 mil when the company, before I joined, was doing just over 500K per year - which I knew as I had to submit the company financials for the EP application .. Lesson learnt .. and the only reason I took up on his offer itself was because of my stressed out situation as my previous employer had gone bust ..

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Postby Tigerslayer » Thu, 18 Aug 2011 9:52 pm

Ok, but I think it's time for me to ask something I've been wondering about for a long time. What is the purpose of this EP differentiation? Why are these different category of EPs? What's the difference for the employee or the company if the employee has Q1, P1 or P2? In any case you're given the right to work, aren't you? And there are no quotas for the different EP categories, so why did they put it this way?


Even if there are no quotas currently it leaves available the scope for there to be quotas in the future as well as the ability to track the skill levels and earning potential of their foreign worker base.

Hence why we speculate that Q1 passes will now/soon be harder to get.

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Postby calvink » Fri, 19 Aug 2011 4:14 pm

Hail all foreigners..

You may start looking for jobs before the new policy kick start...Your deadline..31st December 2011.. lol

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 19 Aug 2011 5:12 pm

calvink wrote:Hail all foreigners..

You may start looking for jobs before the new policy kick start...Your deadline..31st December 2011.. lol


ftopic81497.html :roll:

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Postby bathad » Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:16 pm

It is not very wise for Singapore to copy Western policies carried out these days. Singapore has been attracting the best talents in the world since the 2008 financial crisis. Before the financial crisis best talents in the world tended to go to Western countries to work. Only mediocre ones came to Singapore to land a job. However, since the 2008 financial crisis the best talents in the world are eager to work in Singapore. The economy in Singapore is not bad in any sense. Singapore has a very good chance of attracting the best talents in the world now. Why does Singapore want to spoil the best chance? Actually what Singapore should do is to loose the policy of accepting foreign talents.

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Postby bathad » Sun, 21 Aug 2011 8:24 am

Russia has lately undertaken some steps to ease immigration restrictions.

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Postby thismyvoice » Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:16 am

If you are staying here, you will notice that the infrastructure in Singapore cannot keep up with the influx of foreigners. Insufficient housing, crowded train, congested road. Many of us have seen better times.

Singapore is a multi-cultural and multi-racial society. The people have always been very tolerant towards foreigners. However, the recent huge influx has caused great inconvenience to all residents. This in turn has caused resentment ... mainly towards the government I would say. Government claims that the people coming to Singapore are talents and the country needs them. Upon further scrutiny however, Singaporeans find that many FT cannot speak English, PR has been granted to hawkers, some FT has fake degree, some got drunk and refuse to pay their cab fare, etc.

Social media is blowing up a lot of incidents. The government has to take further measures to address this resentment or they would be kissing their multi-million salaries goodbye.

Yes Singapore need talents. But just maybe, we can be more stringent on the criteria.


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