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poleculo
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S-pass quota

Postby poleculo » Sat, 13 Aug 2011 6:36 pm

Hi All,

Is anyone here familiar with how the S-pass quota is calculated? I understand that is a quota based on the number of locals of PR's employed and contributing to the CPF.

I am having a little trouble understanding the results in the MoM's calculator https://app.quotacal.mom.gov.sg/ecalcul ... index.aspx

Here is a little background on the company:

We are a service company ran by 2 directors and employs 3 individuals. 2 are locals and 1 holds an EP. However, only one of the locals has contributed to the CPF in the last 3 months as the other one is a new hire working for just a month. We hired another foreigner but the EP was rejected on the basis that he qualifications are not enough to merit an EP (basic requirements such as salary threshold, university grad were met but still rejected). We appealed but rejected again. We are now considering S-pass but we can't understand if we are qualified to apply since.

I tried the quota calculator but I can't understand. Sorry I do not know how to post the picture of the results. But here is a bit how it looks

Since there is only 1 employee who contributes to the CPF I only put 1 on the number of local employees.

Entitlement / Utilised / Balance
Main Quota (R+S Passes) 1 / 0 /1#

PRC R Passes quota 0 / 0 / 0

S Passes quota 0 / 0 / 0

# This cell shows the maximum number of new Work Permit and S pass holders the company / firm can bring in based on its existing workforce profile, irrespective of the balances shown in other cells above.

What is confusing me is that main quota shows we are entitled to 1 and we have a balance of 1. But the S-pass quota shows we have 0 entitlement, Utilised, and balance. And the cell with # says that it is the maximum number. Can anyone explain this to me? Are we entitled to 1 or we have 0?

Any help on this will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 12:02 am

This one is easy....

You are allowed 1 S pass holder for every 2 local full time staff (Contributing CPF and earning over I believe, $800/mo now (to be considered as full time and not part time). EP holders are not counted in any of the calculations, e.g., they cannot be used for quota purposes.

Additionally, S pass holders cannot comprise more than 25% of your total workforce (not including EP holders). Therefore, the easy way to look at it if you are in a Service industry (50% dependency ratio) you would be allow 1 S pass holder for every 2 local full time staff.

The problem you are having is the fact the the main quota is showing 1 for S/WP holders. This is correct as with a 50% dependency ration you are allowed one foreigner for every full time local staff. So you would be allowed to have one WP holder. The S pass hold has additional criteria. If you had two full time local employees, you could have one WP holder and one S pass holder (the S pass holder is 25% of the total workforce (2 locals, 1 WP & 1 S pass). But with one employee, you cannot have any S passes as it would be more than 25% of the workforce.

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 9:03 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:This one is easy....

You are allowed 1 S pass holder for every 2 local full time staff (Contributing CPF and earning over I believe, $800/mo now (to be considered as full time and not part time). EP holders are not counted in any of the calculations, e.g., they cannot be used for quota purposes.

Additionally, S pass holders cannot comprise more than 25% of your total workforce (not including EP holders). Therefore, the easy way to look at it if you are in a Service industry (50% dependency ratio) you would be allow 1 S pass holder for every 2 local full time staff.

The problem you are having is the fact the the main quota is showing 1 for S/WP holders. This is correct as with a 50% dependency ration you are allowed one foreigner for every full time local staff. So you would be allowed to have one WP holder. The S pass hold has additional criteria. If you had two full time local employees, you could have one WP holder and one S pass holder (the S pass holder is 25% of the total workforce (2 locals, 1 WP & 1 S pass). But with one employee, you cannot have any S passes as it would be more than 25% of the workforce.


Thanks for the reply. This was very helpful.

But as I have said we have a new employee working with us who had just contributed to the CPF the previous month. If he has contributed for 3 months that would make us 2 full time local employees. Would that make us qualify for an S-Pass? Thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 12:59 pm

If both local employees are paying CPF for three full months, then yes. Provided you don't have 2 foreign staff already on WPs

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 1:29 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If both local employees are paying CPF for three full months, then yes. Provided you don't have 2 foreign staff already on WPs


i see. Right now we dont have someone on S-pass or WP. This will be the 1st time we will employ someone on a S-Pass that is why we are unknowlegable about this. I guess we have to wait for our new local employees to contribute for 3 months before we can apply for Spass.

Btw, are the directors included from the count of employees?

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 2:07 pm

poleculo wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Additionally, S pass holders cannot comprise more than 25% of your total workforce (not including EP holders). Therefore, the easy way to look at it if you are in a Service industry (50% dependency ratio) you would be allow 1 S pass holder for every 2 local full time staff.


I am confused by this. You said that S-pass holders cannot be more than 25% of the total workforce. Assuming that our new local employee will already be considered in the computation, that would make our total local employees 2. So that would be 2 locals + 1 S-pass = 3 total employees.

With that, the S-pass holder approximately comprises 33% of the total workforce. So is that possible? T

Thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 2:32 pm

Yeah, I am probably confusing you as we are also in a Service industry. The 25% thing actually isn't written as it generally works out the 25% in normal usage.

Let me try it a different way. (I have one of our 5 companies with a total of three employees only (2 local & 1 S pass). Previously I had 2 locals, 1 WP & 1 S pas (e.g., the S pass holder has the equivalent of being 25% of the workforce. From a real point of view, if you take my first statement that you are allowed 1 S pass holder for every 2 locals, and use that for your calculations you will be right.

In a service industry, if you have 50 local staff you would be, with a 50% dependency ratio, allowed to hire 50 foreigners. e.g., up to 50% of your total workforce (excluding EP holders) are "allowed to be" foreigners, of either the S or WP flavour. BUT, S pass holder are further limited to being allowed to only hold 50% of the allowable foreigner positions. (50% of 50% is 25% of the whole "allowable" workforce)

A service company with 50 locals can have (must be on CPF - not directors fees) :

50 WP holders & 0 S pass holders

or

40 WP holders & 10 S pass holders

or

25 WP holders & 25 S pass holders

or

40 WP holders & 10 S pass holders

or

10 WP holders & 25 S pass holders

with 50 local staff, regardless of how many Foreigners you have you would be limited to only 25 S pass holders.

Directors can be employees IF they are drawing Salaries and paying CPF. Not if they are only drawing directors fees. (They are going to get you one way or the other).

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 2:45 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Yeah, I am probably confusing you as we are also in a Service industry. The 25% thing actually isn't written as it generally works out the 25% in normal usage.

Let me try it a different way. (I have one of our 5 companies with a total of three employees only (2 local & 1 S pass). Previously I had 2 locals, 1 WP & 1 S pas (e.g., the S pass holder has the equivalent of being 25% of the workforce. From a real point of view, if you take my first statement that you are allowed 1 S pass holder for every 2 locals, and use that for your calculations you will be right.

In a service industry, if you have 50 local staff you would be, with a 50% dependency ratio, allowed to hire 50 foreigners. e.g., up to 50% of your total workforce (excluding EP holders) are "allowed to be" foreigners, of either the S or WP flavour. BUT, S pass holder are further limited to being allowed to only hold 50% of the allowable foreigner positions. (50% of 50% is 25% of the whole "allowable" workforce)

A service company with 50 locals can have (must be on CPF - not directors fees) :

50 WP holders & 0 S pass holders

or

40 WP holders & 10 S pass holders

or

25 WP holders & 25 S pass holders

or

40 WP holders & 10 S pass holders

or

10 WP holders & 25 S pass holders

with 50 local staff, regardless of how many Foreigners you have you would be limited to only 25 S pass holders.

Directors can be employees IF they are drawing Salaries and paying CPF. Not if they are only drawing directors fees. (They are going to get you one way or the other).


That is a very detailed explanation. Thanks. I think I got it. So having 2 employees makes us eligible for 1 WP and 1 Spass. That would be a total of 4 (local 50%, WP 25% and Spass 25%) Right?

Now since I don't plan on using the WP and only the S-pass, MoM would still see the computation as the above even though we only have 3 employees (2 locals and 1 S-pass). We will still be allowed 1 S-pass even though we don't use the WP? Is that correct?

Thanks

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 2:58 pm

I used the quota calculator again with 2 employees and here is the result.

Entitlement / Utilised / Balance
Main Quota (R+S Passes) 2 / 0 /2#

PRC R Passes quota 0 / 0 / 0

S Passes quota 0 / 0 / 0

# This cell shows the maximum number of new Work Permit and S pass holders the company / firm can bring in based on its existing workforce profile, irrespective of the balances shown in other cells above.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 3:15 pm

Is the company a new company? Otherwise, I know what I've got and have had for quite some time now (around 3 years). Of course, with the new tightening up, they may be just waiting for renewal time for me (not going to happen as I'm transferring the S pass holder to another company on the 16th and both local will be transferred to the same company on the end of the month and the small company will become dormant.

Don't know, just try. See what happens. It may well be the calculator, so apply and see.

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 3:25 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Is the company a new company? Otherwise, I know what I've got and have had for quite some time now (around 3 years). Of course, with the new tightening up, they may be just waiting for renewal time for me (not going to happen as I'm transferring the S pass holder to another company on the 16th and both local will be transferred to the same company on the end of the month and the small company will become dormant.

Don't know, just try. See what happens. It may well be the calculator, so apply and see.


Company has been operating for 3-4 years now. Could be that MoM is waiting for renewal. Did they change the quota system? Is the 25% system a new policy or is still the same when you applied for 3 years ago?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 3:50 pm

The 25% is just a rule of thumb.

The rule is Service dependency ratio is 50% which means 1 foreigner for one local.

The S pass ratio is 50% of your Foreigner allowance. or the balance of allowance which ever is lower. (If you already have 60% of your foreigner allowance as WP holders, the obviously you cannot have 50% of your foreigners as S pass holders).

So, the smart thing to do, it offer the guy a contract, and like all contracts here should include, that it is contingent on getting a suitable work permit.

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 3:55 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The 25% is just a rule of thumb.

The rule is Service dependency ratio is 50% which means 1 foreigner for one local.

The S pass ratio is 50% of your Foreigner allowance. or the balance of allowance which ever is lower. (If you already have 60% of your foreigner allowance as WP holders, the obviously you cannot have 50% of your foreigners as S pass holders).

So, the smart thing to do, it offer the guy a contract, and like all contracts here should include, that it is contingent on getting a suitable work permit.


Thanks for the clarification. Yeah that is how the contract is stipulated. However, we do not want to lose the guy as we really see that his skills are necessary for our operations. We are a consultancy company btw and his skills and previous work experience are very much what we need. That's why we our exploring all the options to keep him.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 5:18 pm

You might have a problem with getting a S pass for him. It is quite clearly stated that if you apply for an EP and did not tick the box asking if you would like to be considered for an S pass if the EP application is not successful, then, you cannot later apply for an S pass. It would do you well to be sure to read EACH line of the application very closely.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/service ... _Form8.pdf

On the first page of the application, the 2nd item under notes is very important as it puts the burden on the applicant for the pass to ensure all is currect BEFORE submitting the application.

Note:
 The application will be voided if inaccurate written information or wrong/unclear supporting documents


and on Page 2, the following question has screwed up so many applicates it's unbelievable.

[ The applicant may apply for an S Pass if he/she is not a partner, sole proprietor or director of a company. ]
Is the applicant a partner, sole proprietor or director of any company?  Yes  No
Does the applicant wish to be considered for (select one only):
I. Employment Pass and S Pass 
II. Employment Pass only 
III. S Pass Only 


If you tick II then you have just told MOM that you will not consider applying for an S pass. Therefore, when you try after being rejected for the EP, you will be rejected out of hand for the S pass as you have already made your statement. Be careful, be very careful of what you tick. Often the employee states they only want to be considered for an EP and their pride causes their downfall.

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Postby poleculo » Sun, 14 Aug 2011 5:30 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You might have a problem with getting a S pass for him. It is quite clearly stated that if you apply for an EP and did not tick the box asking if you would like to be considered for an S pass if the EP application is not successful, then, you cannot later apply for an S pass. It would do you well to be sure to read EACH line of the application very closely.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/service ... _Form8.pdf

On the first page of the application, the 2nd item under notes is very important as it puts the burden on the applicant for the pass to ensure all is currect BEFORE submitting the application.

Note:
 The application will be voided if inaccurate written information or wrong/unclear supporting documents


and on Page 2, the following question has screwed up so many applicates it's unbelievable.

[ The applicant may apply for an S Pass if he/she is not a partner, sole proprietor or director of a company. ]
Is the applicant a partner, sole proprietor or director of any company?  Yes  No
Does the applicant wish to be considered for (select one only):
I. Employment Pass and S Pass 
II. Employment Pass only 
III. S Pass Only 


If you tick II then you have just told MOM that you will not consider applying for an S pass. Therefore, when you try after being rejected for the EP, you will be rejected out of hand for the S pass as you have already made your statement. Be careful, be very careful of what you tick. Often the employee states they only want to be considered for an EP and their pride causes their downfall.


You have been very helpful. Thanks so much.

Yeah we checked "Employment Pass only" but only because during the time we applied him we have not yet submitted for Industrial Classification. After he got rejected, we went to the MoM to clarify the rejection. One of the personnel there told us that we can do two things 1) Appeal the case or 2) Apply for S-pass since the guy has been a S-pass holder before (she however told us that we have to apply for Industrial Classification and pay the fees again when we apply for S-pass as it will be treated as a new application). We appealed but got rejected so we will try for S-pass and apply for Industrial Classification. We have been granted the Industrial Classification but now the barrier we are facing is the quota.


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