Singapore Expats Forum

Looking for advice on my two sons

A moderated forum for serious discussions only.
joshuaday11
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu, 04 Aug 2011

Looking for advice on my two sons

Postby joshuaday11 » Thu, 04 Aug 2011 6:10 am

Dear all,

I happened to stumbled to this forum by chances after months of research on my employment issues
I am seeking advise from forumers sundaymorningstaples, strong eagle, ksl,saint for my predicament.
I am a dual citizen of NZ/UK. My wife is a Singaporean with Hongkong and New Zealand PRs where we live there for sometime. My first son was born in 2003 in Hong Kong. My second son was born in New Zealand in 2005.
We are currently in New Zealand where I am working with Auckland District Health Board. I have read from many websites and forums about NS obligations. I am fully aware of the do's and don't. We did not apply for any Singapore PP for our boys. We had a right of entry stamp on my two children UK Passport with ICA after acquiring their Singapore Dual Citizenship under minor from parent of Singapore Descent
I am now being head hunted by the Singapore Medical Association to join a team of researchers there.
We are facing a major stumbling block as ICA and MOM rejects my children studying in Singapore and revoking their right of entry stamp. The letter I recieved states since the mother of my children is a Singaporean, both child needs to be a Singaporean i.e Singapore Passport in order for them to be allowed to be educated there. Right of entry stamps is not allowed for my case as a precursor to have my children to be educated here(This is my perassumption as nobody at ICA can provide me with a straight answer). This only came to light when my new employer tried to apply for my EP/P1 pass. It has been dragging for almost six months now
What should I do now ? We do not want our children to be a Singaporean. We have not live in Singapore at all . My wife has not lived in Singapore since she was 5 years old. I just want to have my family with me while in Singapore as commuting from NZ to SG is not a good option just to be close with my family
The employment offer is substantial but having said that I feel someone is putting a gun to my head forcing me to do something that is against our wishes. I have read thru the right of entry stamp guideline and I am very sure I am within the guideline. Having spoken to many friends, all their children did not face any issues with just the right of entry stamp. My wife renounciation was rejected without any valid reasons after she acquired her NZ citizenship recently. ICA request her to come in for interview which I believe spells trouble.
Any thoughts or inputs ? I would welcome any suggestions from the wealth of infos this forum has provided.
Last edited by joshuaday11 on Thu, 13 Oct 2011 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Postby taxico » Thu, 04 Aug 2011 2:33 pm

it seems like something wasn't done right and now singapore wants to hold your wife and children accountable, especially as your family wishes to move (back) to singapore to live/work/study.

it would also be good to ask mad scientist for advice. he's a wealth of knowledge when it comes to such situations...
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

Manthink
Regular
Regular
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri, 25 Feb 2011

Re: Looking for advise on my two sons

Postby Manthink » Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:21 pm

joshuaday11 wrote:My wife renounciation was rejected without any valid reasons after she acquired her NZ citizenship recently. ICA request her to come in for interview which I believe spells trouble.


When did your wife began the process of citizenship change?

joshuaday11
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu, 04 Aug 2011

Re: Advice........vs advise

Postby joshuaday11 » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 4:02 am

@Manthink: I did it early this year.

The last person I am waiting for comments seems to be not responding i.e Mad Scientist. I understand he is in Christchurch from his posts. Does anyone know how I can get hold of him. I am prepared to fly over to meet him in person. Please help if you can.

Many thanks for your help

Joshua

joshuaday11
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu, 04 Aug 2011

Postby joshuaday11 » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:36 am

1000+ views and no reply sigh........
I could've sworn the earlier posts were deleted. Even my previous post was modified. Strange ???

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35184
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:03 pm

I am attempting to contact him via external sources. Not sure what is happening as he's seeming off the radar for a while. Hopefully he will respond. Hopefully, he is okay. He's like I am, we're not spring chickens any more.

Your situation is out of my depth, to be honest. Only MS has the depth of knowledge to glean out a correct answer for you, I think.

sms

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Postby nakatago » Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:14 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I am attempting to contact him via external sources. Not sure what is happening as he's seeming off the radar for a while. Hopefully he will respond. Hopefully, he is okay. He's like I am, we're not spring chickens any more.

Your situation is out of my depth, to be honest. Only MS has the depth of knowledge to glean out a correct answer for you, I think.

sms


I sometimes see MS show up on the list of logged in users. He probably just glances a look but never posts. I sent him a PM a couple of weeks back (about something totally different) but he didn't reply.

Koalabear
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon, 27 Jul 2009

Re: Looking for advise on my two sons

Postby Koalabear » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 12:34 pm

joshuaday11 wrote:Dear all,

I happened to stumbled to this forum by chances after months of research on my employment issues
I am seeking advise from forumers sundaymorningstaples, strong eagle, ksl,saint for my predicament.
I am a dual citizen of NZ/UK. My wife is a Singaporean with Hongkong and New Zealand PRs where we live there for sometime. My first son was born in 2003 in Hong Kong. My second son was born in New Zealand in 2005.
We are currently in New Zealand where I am working with Auckland District Health Board. I have read from many websites and forums about NS obligations. I am fully aware of the do's and don't. We did not apply for any Singapore PP for our boys. We had a right of entry stamp on my two children UK Passport with ICA after acquiring their Singapore Dual Citizenship under minor from parent of Singapore Descent
I am now being head hunted by the Singapore Medical Association to join a team of researchers there.
We are facing a major stumbling block as ICA and MOM rejects my children studying in Singapore and revoking their right of entry stamp. The letter I recieved states since the mother of my children is a Singaporean, both child needs to be a Singaporean i.e Singapore Passport in order for them to be allowed to be educated there. Right of entry stamps is not allowed for my case as a precursor to have my children to be educated here(This is my perassumption as nobody at ICA can provide me with a straight answer). This only came to light when my new employer tried to apply for my EP/P1 pass. It has been dragging for almost six months now
What should I do now ? We do not want our children to be a Singaporean. We have not live in Singapore at all . My wife has not lived in Singapore since she was 5 years old. I just want to have my family with me while in Singapore as commuting from NZ to SG is not a good option just to be close with my family
The employment offer is substantial but having said that I feel someone is putting a gun to my head forcing me to do something that is against our wishes. I have read thru the right of entry stamp guideline and I am very sure I am within the guideline. Having spoken to many friends, all their children did not face any issues with just the right of entry stamp. My wife renounciation was rejected without any valid reasons after she acquired her NZ citizenship recently. ICA request her to come in for interview which I believe spells trouble.
Any thoughts or inputs ? I would welcome any suggestions from the wealth of infos this forum has provided.


The stuff ICA tries to pull off is pretty disgusting.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35184
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Sep 2011 1:21 pm

It's not half as bad as the stuff Singaporeans & PR's pull trying to get out of NS I reckon.

Koalabear
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon, 27 Jul 2009

Postby Koalabear » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 10:24 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's not half as bad as the stuff Singaporeans & PR's pull trying to get out of NS I reckon.


Excuse me? How is it bad if someone who has not used your socio-economic benefit wants to get out of NS?

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Postby nakatago » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 10:29 am

Koalabear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's not half as bad as the stuff Singaporeans & PR's pull trying to get out of NS I reckon.


Excuse me? How is it bad if someone who has not used your socio-economic benefit wants to get out of NS?


It's not this specific demographic (OP).

He's referring to people who lived in Singapore/used their Singaporean passports to travel to countries practically visa free/PR's who used government subsidies for education/etc until they realized they or their children have to do NS and would flood the boards asking how they can weasel their way out of it.

What ICA is doing in this particular case may be disgusting but the abusers serve as precedent which makes ICA do these unsavory things in return.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35184
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:29 pm

Koalabear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's not half as bad as the stuff Singaporeans & PR's pull trying to get out of NS I reckon.


Excuse me? How is it bad if someone who has not used your socio-economic benefit wants to get out of NS?


Your's is a minority. Most have and want their cake and eat it too.

Gammaa
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu, 29 Oct 2009

Postby Gammaa » Thu, 08 Sep 2011 1:15 pm

joshuaday11

It looks like right of entry allows social visits only and not study or work.

While avoiding NS is not illegal, evading or the attempt to evade NS is illegal.
The mother’s attempt at renunciation, yet wanting the whole family to stay in Singapore on the spouse’s EP tantamount to attempt at evasion, especially when interpreted in the lion’s den. Singa means lion, you know.
Renunciation means having nothing else to do with Singapore forever [excluding spending money as tourists.] Renunciation is like a super bad divorce. Whatever words you use the impact is the same, that of total betrayal!

If you are successful and rich, it is natural for you to take measures to retain and protect your wealth and assets.
Singapore reserves a huge budget for its defence. Henceforth, there is a sense of security and well-being because all its sons make reluctant sacrifices to do NS so as to get the number crunch in order. The threat of harm is always there whether it is the water issue or attempt to bomb its airport. Whether any threat is real or perceived, whether or not people can relate or empathise, Singapore in its vulnerability is justified in bracing itself accordingly.

Gone are the early days when shirkers get roused from their sleep in some unearthly hours. Their front doors get broken down and dozens of uniformed men in balaclavas armed with M16 guns will have their nozzles on the whole family heads. They will be dragged out in handcuffs to prison with all the media focus so that their pictures get splashed on the front pages of newspapers giving out the message that the authorities will not tolerate any nonsense. Desperate needs sometimes demand drastic actions. Otherwise non-compliance will become a huge problem wasting unnecessary time and resources.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head. You are not Singaporean but your sons are whether you want it or not.
{We had a right of entry stamp on my two children UK Passport with ICA after acquiring their Singapore Dual Citizenship under minor from parent of Singapore Descent.}

People might help you if they think you are really deserving of help. My apprehension is that trouble might follow them. Punishing loved ones is after all an old way of effectively punishing someone. Take care.

joshuaday11
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu, 04 Aug 2011

Postby joshuaday11 » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 4:18 am

Gammaa wrote:joshuaday11

It looks like right of entry allows social visits only and not study or work.

While avoiding NS is not illegal, evading or the attempt to evade NS is illegal.
The mother’s attempt at renunciation, yet wanting the whole family to stay in Singapore on the spouse’s EP tantamount to attempt at evasion, especially when interpreted in the lion’s den. Singa means lion, you know.
Renunciation means having nothing else to do with Singapore forever [excluding spending money as tourists.] Renunciation is like a super bad divorce. Whatever words you use the impact is the same, that of total betrayal!

If you are successful and rich, it is natural for you to take measures to retain and protect your wealth and assets.
Singapore reserves a huge budget for its defence. Henceforth, there is a sense of security and well-being because all its sons make reluctant sacrifices to do NS so as to get the number crunch in order. The threat of harm is always there whether it is the water issue or attempt to bomb its airport. Whether any threat is real or perceived, whether or not people can relate or empathise, Singapore in its vulnerability is justified in bracing itself accordingly.

Gone are the early days when shirkers get roused from their sleep in some unearthly hours. Their front doors get broken down and dozens of uniformed men in balaclavas armed with M16 guns will have their nozzles on the whole family heads. They will be dragged out in handcuffs to prison with all the media focus so that their pictures get splashed on the front pages of newspapers giving out the message that the authorities will not tolerate any nonsense. Desperate needs sometimes demand drastic actions. Otherwise non-compliance will become a huge problem wasting unnecessary time and resources.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head. You are not Singaporean but your sons are whether you want it or not.
{We had a right of entry stamp on my two children UK Passport with ICA after acquiring their Singapore Dual Citizenship under minor from parent of Singapore Descent.}

People might help you if they think you are really deserving of help. My apprehension is that trouble might follow them. Punishing loved ones is after all an old way of effectively punishing someone. Take care.


Gamma
Thank you for your insight on this. BTW we have close friends that are currently right now in Singapore with similar situation as us. Their kids are currently in to local schools and it has been confirmed with MOE that their children has equal status till 21 as a Singaporean.
Now I am confused. Where did you get this info that the right of entry stamp only permits social visits or short stay but not study or live there. If that is the case the Right of Entry stamp has no purpose as most of foreigners will get either 30 or 90 days stamp which will be more than sufficient for social visiting purposes in SG.
Yes, no one put a gun to my head but I am being head hunted by the Singapore Medical Association which is basically a Government control body .
When we acquired our kids right of entry stamp , we have written proof from ICA officers on its guidelines which clearly indicates the opposites of what you have mentioned above.
I have gone thru MS posts everyday for the last two weeks and it confirmed my steps taken were correct. His posts on this topic are very precise and although I have not met him yet(hoping), I have checked and rechecked what he had stated here and it is all true with what I had done. Now this is puzzling unless you have proof to that effect

Joshua

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35184
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 09 Sep 2011 7:02 am

It would appear that your wife may well be the stumbling block. If I were ICA, I would have to ask why, if she has been out of the country since she was 5 years of age, hasn't she renounced when she turned 21. It would appear that "she" seems to be the one who is appearing to be milking the system would not allow her sons to be registered for NS while she still keeps her options open.

I believe that may well be your problem. If you think about it, it does make sense (or it doesn't make sense why she has never renounced).

I still haven't gotten any response from my email to Mad Scientist. Not sure what the problem is unless the gahmen have threatened him again.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Strictly Speaking”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest