Singapore Expats Forum

LOC and appeal rejected - desperate!

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

senseshnal
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue, 03 May 2011

LOC and appeal rejected - desperate!

Postby senseshnal » Sat, 23 Jul 2011 10:43 pm

I moved to singapore last nov since my husband took up a job here. My US employer is ready to hire me to work from here (i am a software qa engineer) and set up an RO with me and ankther sales person as reps. The other person has his EP approved. My LOC and subsequent appeal were rejected. it appears that the reason is a lack of physical addres since i plan to work from home. The immigration agent seems to think there is not much that can be done. I am desperately hoping that i can find a way before my company runs out of patience. Tried many trips to the MoM but could not get past the reception really. Any suggestions and ideas will be much appreciated! I feel really depressed! :cry:

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: LOC and appeal rejected - desperate!

Postby ksl » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 1:31 am

senseshnal wrote:I moved to singapore last nov since my husband took up a job here. My US employer is ready to hire me to work from here (i am a software qa engineer) and set up an RO with me and ankther sales person as reps. The other person has his EP approved. My LOC and subsequent appeal were rejected. it appears that the reason is a lack of physical addres since i plan to work from home. The immigration agent seems to think there is not much that can be done. I am desperately hoping that i can find a way before my company runs out of patience. Tried many trips to the MoM but could not get past the reception really. Any suggestions and ideas will be much appreciated! I feel really depressed! :cry:
Haven't we discussed this before? Who is the immigration agent you are talking about ? To operate from home you need permission, before you can apply

senseshnal
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue, 03 May 2011

Re: LOC and appeal rejected - desperate!

Postby senseshnal » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 8:49 am

ksl wrote:
senseshnal wrote:I moved to singapore last nov since my husband took up a job here. My US employer is ready to hire me to work from here (i am a software qa engineer) and set up an RO with me and ankther sales person as reps. The other person has his EP approved. My LOC and subsequent appeal were rejected. it appears that the reason is a lack of physical addres since i plan to work from home. The immigration agent seems to think there is not much that can be done. I am desperately hoping that i can find a way before my company runs out of patience. Tried many trips to the MoM but could not get past the reception really. Any suggestions and ideas will be much appreciated! I feel really depressed! :cry:
Haven't we discussed this before? Who is the immigration agent you are talking about ? To operate from home you need permission, before you can apply


I am referring to the Singapore immigration agent that my company hired to file the LOC application. How do I go about getting permission? Tanks for responding.

User avatar
BillyB
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Location: My laptop

Re: LOC and appeal rejected - desperate!

Postby BillyB » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:17 am

senseshnal wrote:
ksl wrote:
senseshnal wrote:I moved to singapore last nov since my husband took up a job here. My US employer is ready to hire me to work from here (i am a software qa engineer) and set up an RO with me and ankther sales person as reps. The other person has his EP approved. My LOC and subsequent appeal were rejected. it appears that the reason is a lack of physical addres since i plan to work from home. The immigration agent seems to think there is not much that can be done. I am desperately hoping that i can find a way before my company runs out of patience. Tried many trips to the MoM but could not get past the reception really. Any suggestions and ideas will be much appreciated! I feel really depressed! :cry:
Haven't we discussed this before? Who is the immigration agent you are talking about ? To operate from home you need permission, before you can apply


I am referring to the Singapore immigration agent that my company hired to file the LOC application. How do I go about getting permission? Tanks for responding.


Firstly, it's likely you hired an agency who has no official connection to immigration so don't confuse the two. At the end of the day, all they are interested in is getting your money. I'm guessing you were probably told all sorts of crap and given false hope to justify an up-front payment.

How much did they charge you? And was it done on an initial payment and then a success fee if the application is granted? If not, it should have been but I'd bet they took it all up-front.

The processes and procedures in SG are not difficult to follow. Especially for someone with intelligence - which it sounds like you have. The agencies like to add-value by making out they are complicated. And more often than not, the agencies themselves make a complete balls-up of things.

Why don't you start from the beginning, get time and go and physically visit the MOM and ICA in the first instance. MOM is done on an appointment basis via the internet, I'm not sure about ICA. Do as much of the application yourself, rather than putting your future in the hands of someone who, quite likely, may not know a great deal more than you and clearly doesn't have your best interests at heart.

I assume you have read the approval criteria, as per KSL's reply, so you know this isn't a complete waste of time and you are flogging a dead horse?

Good luck

senseshnal
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue, 03 May 2011

Postby senseshnal » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 1:17 pm

ok - thanks. The agency ( won't call it "immigration" anymore, although such agencies typically file all types of applications) was hired by my employer since they do not have a presence here and are not familiar with the system. They were setting up an RO and this was the same agency that procesed the paper work for that.

I have been to the MoM office on Havelock road but can't get past the reception. It appears that the online appointments are only for the Havelock road office and the lady there told me that they are not the ones dealing with LOCs - its the guys on Havelock road. So any pointers on how I can get an appointment?

Doing some more research based on ksl's comments, i realized that i actually need permission from the URA to use the condo we are renting as a home office. I will do this next week.

Separately, are there any known issues with approval of LOC for an RO? Do they absolutely need to have a physical office?

Thanks for the input, again!

User avatar
BillyB
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Location: My laptop

Postby BillyB » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 1:27 pm

senseshnal wrote:ok - thanks. The agency ( won't call it "immigration" anymore, although such agencies typically file all types of applications) was hired by my employer since they do not have a presence here and are not familiar with the system. They were setting up an RO and this was the same agency that procesed the paper work for that.

I have been to the MoM office on Havelock road but can't get past the reception. It appears that the online appointments are only for the Havelock road office and the lady there told me that they are not the ones dealing with LOCs - its the guys on Havelock road. So any pointers on how I can get an appointment?

Doing some more research based on ksl's comments, i realized that i actually need permission from the URA to use the condo we are renting as a home office. I will do this next week.

Separately, are there any known issues with approval of LOC for an RO? Do they absolutely need to have a physical office?

Thanks for the input, again!


Why don't you speak to IE Singapore, who look after the process for Representative Offices. I've dealt with them a number of times and they are always really helpful over the phone.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 5:26 pm

Actually all LOC used to be dealt with in the Blue section on the ground floor. first left when you go through the door.

You have to stick to your guns, to get through to them by insisting to talk with a works officer in the blue section there are 3 cubicles on the right in the blue section that deal with LOC enquires, not a desk clerk at reception, all you need is a number from the reception tell the clerk the matter is between you and the works officer and not the reception. It's quite possible the person you spoke with doesn't know!

User avatar
BillyB
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Location: My laptop

Postby BillyB » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 5:40 pm

OP - I think the whole process you have followed is flawed. Are you an approved representative in the Rep Office? You would have evidence from IE Singapore to state that you are authorised to work in SG as long as your EP application is successful, but you need to submit that to the MOM prior to applying for your EP. I'm not sure how it fit's into place with an LOC, but a LOC isn't a way to circumvent the requirements. You'd still need approval from the IE in my opinion.

How did your colleague gain his EP without having a physical office to declare and use on the records to firstly IE Singapore and secondly the MOM? What details did you give?

I'd start from square one as it seems like you've been spun a web of bullsh*t by the agency you used and they have tried to cut corners, and potentially caused you a load of hassle by not knowing what they are doing.

revhappy
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1067
Joined: Wed, 10 Jun 2009

Postby revhappy » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 6:17 pm

BillyB, Most banks here do the visa application through agency. My Employer and the other bank that starts with B uses PWC for visa applications. If the agency that the OP is talking about is in the same league, then they should know their job pretty well.

User avatar
BillyB
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Location: My laptop

Postby BillyB » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 6:53 pm

revhappy wrote:BillyB, Most banks here do the visa application through agency. My Employer and the other bank that starts with B uses PWC for visa applications. If the agency that the OP is talking about is in the same league, then they should know their job pretty well.




How do you come to the conclusion she works for a bank?

I get what you are saying, but the OP is referring to a RO - with 2 staff at present - a Representative Office (which by definition should only be conducting marketing and testing the market, no sales per se, with a view to transition to a full office in due course and if their findings support this). This is another factor that you need to aware of if you are sending role definitions and employer contracts to the MOM - you cannot sell from a rep office or invoice customers for services.

Or maybe the OP just explained the post quite badly? I went through exactly the same a few years ago when my old employer was setting up a satellite office in SG.

I used to work for a hedge fund and we used a local agency who made a complete balls-up of the the IE Singapore requirements, the EP applications and mis-managed the whole process very badly. And they charged us around 10k for all the applications and taking ownership, apparently, of the whole process. We later found out how easy it was to complete ourselves. We also educated the agency on why one of the EP's had been rejected - because they didn't supply the IE Singapore paperwork with an application and MOM just rejected it straight out.

So, sorry, I feel quite strongly against these agencies who feed you line after line of so called competence. Maybe the ones the banks use are good, but some of the others are a waste of space. The one we used very nearly caused a lot of inconvenience to some of my old colleagues because they told them they would never get their EP's granted, words from the MOM apparently, so it's better to return home to the U.S or the U.K and find a job there. When really they had made no contact with the MOM and fed us a load of lies because they didn't care and we had paid them upfront. It was resolved in days when we took the relevant paperwork from IE Singapore to the MOM on appeal - which we handled ourselves.

So my first hand advice would be; when there is an agency involved pay no more than half when they make the application, and half on succession, double check everything, and take what they say with a pinch of salt. The unprofessional nature of the company we used still leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth as you can probably gather, as it potentially could have cost a few people a lot of money and their future jobs based on bullsh*t.

senseshnal
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue, 03 May 2011

Postby senseshnal » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 8:27 pm

I am an approved representative for the RO. I have to agree with BillyB regarding the agency. I do think that they totally screwed this up. Ey shuld have recommended an EP application instead of the LOC and maybe fewer hassles. We sent the RO approval letter along with the appeal but still no luck. As suggested, I am going to try and go back to the MoM and see if I can get past to a works officer. Also, does a rejected LOC make it harder tk get an EP if i decide to move that route?

Thanks for the suggestions, feelmmuch more positive to have the input. Will keep everyone posted.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 8:40 pm

BillyB is spot on. Listen to him.

KSL, when is the last time you tried to barge you way through to the blue room or any other colour room at MOM? Things have changed in the past month or so.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 8:41 pm

BillyB is spot on. Listen to him.

KSL, when is the last time you tried to barge you way through to the blue room or any other colour room at MOM? Things have changed in the past month or so. Additionally, they may not be able to play the agitated angmoh card either. You have an advantage that they don't. But even then it's rarely working now either.

User avatar
BillyB
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Location: My laptop

Postby BillyB » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 9:07 pm

Senseshnal - feel free to PM if you like and I'm happy to point you in the right direction and give you advice based on my experience. This caused my colleagues and myself a lot of headaches and I wouldn't want anyone to go through the same hassle.

Firstly, one of the regulars should be able to clarify what you need to work from home? I'm sure I read that you need a 2 bed condo with a designated room, but I could be wrong on this?
But how come your employer isn't providing an office? And what is your colleague doing for their place of work / what details have they used in their EP application? Worth ensuring your details are consistent.

Another useful thing to do would be to get an appointment via the MOM website to see one of the customer service guys - they are very helpful. Explain your situation and say you had a bad experience with an agency and see what they suggest to do.

Lastly, record all the correspondence you had with the agency and speak to the manager and ask for a complete refund. We built up a number of emails and letters from the agent we used to show their blatant deceit and lies. We got a full refund and all the services managed free for 2 years.

P.S. The nature of the duties for a rep office are clearly outlined on the IE Singapore website. It's worth reading through them and ensuring that any documents submitted reflect that understanding.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:25 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:BillyB is spot on. Listen to him.

KSL, when is the last time you tried to barge you way through to the blue room or any other colour room at MOM? Things have changed in the past month or so. Additionally, they may not be able to play the agitated angmoh card either. You have an advantage that they don't. But even then it's rarely working now either.


SMS this is the same person that asked long ago ! The person is on DP
I moved to singapore last nov since my husband took up a job here


It is very possible that the RO has now gained sales status, looks like the persons spouse is on EP, which means they can apply for LOC.

However they are claiming they are approved to work for the RO, approved by who? By the spouse

Billy B is correct that the RO isn't allowed to do sales, and the RO is not allowed to conduct active business in Singapore. Hence the refusal for LOC

If the company is active now, they should have a company address.

This is the same applicant that has been discussed before. The person is not directly involved in the overseas business, but was offered a position on LOC...If the RO is still not active, there is no chance of an LOC for this person to work from home for an RO

SMS so you are saying the blue rooms are not there or what? This person has no legal right under business regulation to the RO as far as i recall!

The only person was the person setting up the RO who apparently is on EP and has asked the OP to get a LOC to work for the RO.

Something is not quite right here as it is very clear that a RO is not allowed to be active as Billy B explained.

The same person discussed the same several months ago, I know because I explained to them why they couldn't get an LOC, while the RO was not allowed to be active.

I'm guessing but i think the spouse is probably the RO approved applicant and the other spouse who came over on DP now wants an LOC to work for them.

The only changes I know of at MOM, is that the LOC is now different and a proper EP must be applied for, this has changed in the last 3 months.
Last edited by ksl on Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests