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Waiting4Skyrim
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Postby Waiting4Skyrim » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 12:01 pm

Tigerslayer wrote:........

The fact is that for every kid a family has the income has to be split further and if you continue to accumulate children without baring this in mind it can hardly be advantageous for the child. Hence they would be disadvantaged.


I agree.

Another factor would be the amount of available National Insurance/Social Security help from government agencies.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 1:45 pm

Waiting4Skyrim wrote:
Tigerslayer wrote:........

The fact is that for every kid a family has the income has to be split further and if you continue to accumulate children without baring this in mind it can hardly be advantageous for the child. Hence they would be disadvantaged.


I agree.

Another factor would be the amount of available National Insurance/Social Security help from government agencies.


To both of you, I pose these questions

1. What is enough to raise a family ?
2. Does $2K a month enough to raise a family of six or $8K to raise a family of three ?
3. What do you want to put on the table for your family ? A feast or the basic ?
4. To some $8k is just not enough if you want everything in the world money can buy. To others $2K is enough if live frugally and within your means.
5. Again, how do you equate financial stability to having big family ?
6. Your resumes based on Asian applicant. Well , I am an Asian too.
7. One man's junk is another man treasure.
8. It is all about perception of how you think. In fact most of the time , it is not what the people that are in this situation thinks i.e having large family.
9. It boils down to parental responsibility and the commitment of both husband and wife to make thru come thick or thin. Compromise is the essence of success.
10. I employed staff too. Never had I worried when the applicant comes for a large family. I salute to them that they buck the trend and never beg and ask for any sympathy for their situation.
It really breaks my heart on how shallow you see things
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 2:25 pm

^^^^^
+1

Oddly enough, I'm NOT asian, but I've always seen the the same way. You bemoan not having enough for a pair of Nike Trainers, Others make do without shoes and never complain, In fact, we bemoan not having a 50" HDTV. Others are happy to be alive and have siblings to play with instead of electronic games. Those who have never seen a TV or Electricity don't miss it.

Waiting4Skyrim
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Postby Waiting4Skyrim » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 3:18 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:........
7. One man's junk is another man treasure.
........
It really breaks my heart on how shallow you see things


I do agree with Point 7 of your message.

Other questions are subjective.
My answers within personal context may be immaterial as you are emotionally vested in this discussion.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 3:37 pm

To me, you sound the same way, unable to see the forest for the trees in your way. :roll:

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Postby Waiting4Skyrim » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 4:26 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:To me, you sound the same way, unable to see the forest for the trees in your way. :roll:


Yes.. :D ..I agree so there is elevation work underway.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 5:16 pm

Waiting4Skyrim wrote:
Mad Scientist wrote:
Other questions are subjective.
My answers within personal context may be immaterial as you are emotionally vested in this discussion.


I am emotionally detached.
Are you married or having a partner ? Do you have kids ? On what grounds do you make these comments ?
Both yourself and Tigerslayer post relate to both POV which are totally baseless. If you equate economic sustainability to bringing up a family then you fit in just nice with the Chinese demographic of memememe syndrome. Since the termination of birth control days, they have not buck the trend on their population ratios among the four major ethnic group. No amount of carrots dangling by the gahmen, this race FTR is on a downhill trend although they have the highest saving per capita, 10% of this race has at least a million dollar in saving which is the 4th highest in Asia and 90 % majority has the 5 Cs in life.
Having said that , this group has the highest suicide rate, very self centered and very insecure. The recent GE reflects this .
Whether it is a large or small family, the most important thing is the moral responsibility of bringing up your children and the upright teaching that you nurture your children that will reflect on the way they behave in their later life
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Tigerslayer » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 5:33 pm

1. What is enough to raise a family ?


In a first world country I would say enough to ensure ALL of your kids have a safe and clean home, are clothed, fed, receive appropriate healthcare, and are educated.

Since we all have different perspectives on what is acceptable in this regard then I would say this is somewhat subjective and to an extent I have expressed my opinion on it previously.

2. Does $2K a month enough to raise a family of six or $8K to raise a family of three ?


See above.

3. What do you want to put on the table for your family ? A feast or the basic ?


See above.

4. To some $8k is just not enough if you want everything in the world money can buy. To others $2K is enough if live frugally and within your means.


See above.

5. Again, how do you equate financial stability to having big family ?


See Above.

I believe I have left several caveats in my previous posts. A lot of ‘ifs’ which you choose to ignore by including me in these questions.

To be frank my posts are not really about big families. A couple could have a single child and be equally as irresponsible if they do not have means to support it.

It should be noted that from here on these stop being questions and start becoming statements. But I will address them anyhow.

6. Your resumes based on Asian applicant. Well , I am an Asian too.


This is obviously not aimed at me but since your post addresses me and just in case it needs to be said…

I do not see a single line I have written specifying any race, religion, or creed. I believe what I have written spans across all of these areas.

7. One man's junk is another man treasure.


No clue what this cliché has to do with anything.

But I have seen a naked 2 year old with no shoes walking along a sidewalk to his house which happens to be a tarpaulin stretched across a sidewalk. He can be the most loved kid in the world but you tell me if it is a responsible parent who has introduced this child to the world.

I (hopefully) anticipate you would say no. But what if this child’s parents reply to you with that cliché does it appease you?

While this extreme obviously does not seem to occur in Singapore I do not believe it would take nearly that far before I start to think something is wrong and assert that the parents are irresponsible. The marker for this lies within your own moral compass.

8. It is all about perception of how you think. In fact most of the time , it is not what the people that are in this situation thinks i.e having large family.


I don't think I said anything regarding having a large family being fundamentally wrong. I express a concern for the children who by no choice of their own and brought into the world by parents who don't have the resources to provide for them, and again I believe I have been pretty specific about the situations I would consider being irresponsible.


9. It boils down to parental responsibility and the commitment of both husband and wife to make thru come thick or thin. Compromise is the essence of success.


Is this really true? Husband and Wife have commitment to make it through come thick or thin... I am sure the two year old I saw will be grateful for the sentiment.

Next time you are near a pet store you should drop in. There are usually several signs saying not to purchase on a whim. The idea behind this is to prevent the potential owner of a dependant being acquiring said being without proper thought of the resources required to support it.

This translates perfectly to my point about irresponsible parents. Again – no issue with big families so long as due diligence is performed by the parents regarding the resources required to properly care for each child.

10. I employed staff too. Never had I worried when the applicant comes for a large family. I salute to them that they buck the trend and never beg and ask for any sympathy for their situation.


You salute them for bucking the trend? What difference does it make? So long as they bring kids into the world that they are able to support then we agree there is no issue right?

If they bring kids into the world that they cannot support I think they are irresponsible for doing so, and even more so for not asking for help and sympathy to aid them.
Not sure why they should be singled out for salutation during hiring for this.

It really breaks my heart on how shallow you see things


It is interesting how you and SMS are to new posters. You both seem to pick and choose what you read from a post to fit your own assumptions.
So far in less than 20 posts I have been insinuated as an advertiser (jokingly or not), called shallow, and probably worst of all… a mistake on the behalf of my parents.

If you disagree then fine, I am always open to a debate. But what is with these personal insults?
Last edited by Tigerslayer on Sun, 31 Jul 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Tigerslayer » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 5:37 pm

I am emotionally detached.
Are you married or having a partner ? Do you have kids ? On what grounds do you make these comments ?
Both yourself and Tigerslayer post relate to both POV which are totally baseless. If you equate economic sustainability to bringing up a family then you fit in just nice with the Chinese demographic of memememe syndrome. Since the termination of birth control days, they have not buck the trend on their population ratios among the four major ethnic group. No amount of carrots dangling by the gahmen, this race FTR is on a downhill trend although they have the highest saving per capita, 10% of this race has at least a million dollar in saving which is the 4th highest in Asia and 90 % majority has the 5 Cs in life.
Having said that , this group has the highest suicide rate, very self centered and very insecure. The recent GE reflects this .


This again shows a complete misunderstanding of what I am trying to say.

Its also very dismissive of other people's right to an opinion since you are obviously intent on pigeon holing me in some kind of obnoxious group.

Is this some kind of vendetta against strangers?
Last edited by Tigerslayer on Sun, 31 Jul 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby taxico » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 6:08 pm

it takes while to fit in here, and even then, i've seen old timers' heads clashing from time to time...

you'll get the hang of it. if you have an opinion, you're entitled to it. but this privilege also applies to others.

btw, you would be sorely mistaken if you think your standards (your reply to #1) are common place in "first world" countries.

my 2c, of course.
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Postby Tigerslayer » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 6:21 pm

I have been a lurker since I came to Singapore and I am pretty familiar with how newbies are spoken too...

I do come in peace and hope however :)

With regards to my standards in my reply to #1 I think you are unfortunately correct. But I do believe it is what a child deserves.

(In addition to the emotional aspects of course)

:(

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 6:29 pm

TS, I'm afraid nobody knows what the hell you are trying to say. The further you go on, the stranger your comment become. In fact, to me you come across as a rather confused fellow. First it was just having a kid is irresponsible now you added all kinds of codicils including limiting it to 1st world countries.

What does a child deserve? Again, that comes back to "who's yardstick". Who sets the "entitlement". Again, it's different here in Asia. Just as it is in Europe & North America, or different that in Africa, or in the middle east. Morality is determined by the culture you are brought up in so everybody will have a different viewpoint.

You are entitled to yours. We may or may not disagree with it. That is your prerogative just as it is ours. Oh, we don't speak to newbies any differently, it's just newbies are still wearing their hearts on their thin skinned sleeves, that all. :-k

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Postby Tigerslayer » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 6:38 pm

Where did i limit any thing :???:

Just stated an answer in the context of Singapore (Clue is in the thread title) which is supposedly a first world county.

What does a child deserve? I believe I said it is subjective and i stated what i expect based on a first world country (context being singapore again)

Finally its not about wearing any hearts on sleeves, regardless where someone wears their heart its a bit weird to tell a complete stranger their parents made a mistake when you have read maybe 10 sentences of what that person is trying to say.

You actually do not acknowledge or address any of my points instead you merely attempt to discredit them with vagaries.

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 7:21 pm

@Tigerslayer, you started up with making some assumptions and later some other assumptions were made on what you said. As far as I understand your POV it is not contradictive to what MS said - I said something similar yet I completely agree with MS. I suggest to take it all easy.
Which of your points were not addressed?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 31 Jul 2011 8:07 pm

I believe you will find that Singapore only considers itself as a developing country and not a developed country, even though GDP/percapita is 17th in the world. So if that is the premise you are using, then this whole discussion is flawed from the outset. This country has a first world government & infrastructure, but society has not developed as fast as that of the infrastructure. It's easy to tear down and rebuild, but you cannot just annihilate the population and start over. This will take several more generations. They are only two generations from the kampong.


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