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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:39 pm

poodlek wrote:
JR8 wrote:I think PoodleK is also a bit off-mark in her point 1), plenty of people have mentioned here how they intervene to enforce graciousness.



Yeah but we're the expat minority here. I don't think intervention is the norm.


Hi PoodleK
When you wrote
'But I know nobody here would do that, they'd all stare and mutter under their breath and judge but would never risk a confrontation by actually addressing the issue. I think people here also like the feeling of being superior to someone else (part of being kiasu?) so they're on the lookout for stuff like this'.

In saying 'here', I thought you meant on the forum, or in the expat community. Apologies my mistake!

I would agree most SGns don't seem to initiate action at the risk of precipitating conflict. You could argue this reluctance is part of the problem.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:27 am

As I've been saying on this board for years, regarding the contents of this thread, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" I've raised my kids that way, and my "Local" wife has become that way as well. If and when we see inconsideration, we confront it loudly. That way, all around also know that we find it unacceptable. Small changes. Baby steps. Two more generations we might see some visible changes. But the longest journey starts with the first step.

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Postby Brah » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 1:33 am

Depends on the foreigner, and not this one. (I dislike that word 'expat' - lumps us all in with that everything's-paid-for set).

Just try it and you'll see the look of relief on the faces of those standing by sheepishly doing nothing, for doing what they didn't have the guts to do. And as long as it's not done arrogantly, you'll be a good ambassador of wherever you're from, not to mention just being a normal decent human being not tolerating injustices, minor or otherwise*.

What would you do in your own country?

I actually think, deep inside, some wrongdoers secretly crave to be reprimanded for what they know what they're doing is wrong.

And I also can't help but feel some people here are too used to being told what to do than to take charge themselves - they need someone to take the lead.

*The caveat is don't do anything to put yourself in harm's way, there are times when it's best to walk away from a bad situation. In NY these are basic survival skills.

poodlek wrote:Yeah but we're the expat minority here. I don't think intervention is the norm.

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Postby longstebe » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 8:27 am

x9200 wrote:
vozzie wrote:Longstebe is right ... there are annoyances, but you can adapt to them.

So for example, a pregnant lady is standing in a bus and 1m from her a local chap occupies a place for the pregnant/handicapped/elderly pretending he does not see her. Or a lift door gets opened and the crowd rushes in not allowing people to leave the lift. Or somebody jumps a cue just in front of you. So you are saying I should take no action and adapt. Adapt pretending it is all ok or also adapt adopting the behavior?


It may be my wife who's standing on the bus pregnant and it may be my mother inside the lift trying to get out but if thats the only thing I have to worry about then I don't think it makes the place so bad. Jumping the que is rude but you'll spend half your time telling people off.
Not worth the high blood pressure if you ask me.

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longstebe
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Postby longstebe » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 8:33 am

JayCee wrote:I disagree in part about adapting/accepting things here.

When I consitently see 70-80 year old uncles and aunties struggling to stand up on the train or bus when some 20 year old student sits there pretending to sleep or is too engrossed in their iPhone, that sort of behaviour isn't something I want to get used to or adapt to. Some things are just wrong, regardless of culture. I get used to them (sadly) but I don't accept them.


JayCee
If you don't accept it then what do you do about it?
Vozzie and I aren't saying things like that are right, quite the opposite but like I have said before you'll spend half your time all pissed off and it's just not worth it.

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longstebe
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Postby longstebe » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 8:40 am

I'm on a role now :D

Living in a place knowing that someone was stabbed to death near my house or living in a place where some peole don't stand for an old codger, I know where I'd rather be.

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Postby JayCee » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 9:38 am

longstebe wrote:
JayCee wrote:I disagree in part about adapting/accepting things here.

When I consitently see 70-80 year old uncles and aunties struggling to stand up on the train or bus when some 20 year old student sits there pretending to sleep or is too engrossed in their iPhone, that sort of behaviour isn't something I want to get used to or adapt to. Some things are just wrong, regardless of culture. I get used to them (sadly) but I don't accept them.


JayCee
If you don't accept it then what do you do about it?


Tell them to move their arse and give the seat to the person who needs it more, I probably do this 2-3 times a week. It doesn't stress me out at all, rather it relaxes me when I see the old lady given the seat so she doesn't have to hold on for dear life to stop from falling over.

SMS sums it up perfectly, apathy does nothing but contribute to the problem
I HAVE MASTERS!

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Wind In My Hair
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:55 pm

longstebe wrote:you'll spend half your time all pissed off and it's just not worth it.

Yes, like me on this forum. I often have to take a deep breath and let go :D

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Postby snowqueen » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 4:18 pm

JayCee wrote:
longstebe wrote:
JayCee
If you don't accept it then what do you do about it?


Tell them to move their arse and give the seat to the person who needs it more, I probably do this 2-3 times a week. It doesn't stress me out at all, rather it relaxes me when I see the old lady given the seat so she doesn't have to hold on for dear life to stop from falling over.


I have often given young/less deserving people a nudge on the MRT when they haven't given up there seat, and there were the odd occasions when people did it for me when I was pregnant. Sometimes if I scowl a disapproving look down the train at the person taking up a reserved seat, sometimes there's been someone who has given them a nudge on my behalf.

Isn't if funny how often the one been told to stand up, gets off at the next stop. Not sure if that's due to shame or it really is their stop.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 4:56 pm

snowqueen wrote:
Isn't if funny how often the one been told to stand up, gets off at the next stop. Not sure if that's due to shame or it really is their stop.


I've had that happen quite a number of times as well. Probably just coincidence.

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longstebe
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Postby longstebe » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 6:08 pm

JayCee wrote:
longstebe wrote:
JayCee wrote:I disagree in part about adapting/accepting things here.

When I consitently see 70-80 year old uncles and aunties struggling to stand up on the train or bus when some 20 year old student sits there pretending to sleep or is too engrossed in their iPhone, that sort of behaviour isn't something I want to get used to or adapt to. Some things are just wrong, regardless of culture. I get used to them (sadly) but I don't accept them.


JayCee
If you don't accept it then what do you do about it?


Tell them to move their arse and give the seat to the person who needs it more, I probably do this 2-3 times a week. It doesn't stress me out at all, rather it relaxes me when I see the old lady given the seat so she doesn't have to hold on for dear life to stop from falling over.

SMS sums it up perfectly, apathy does nothing but contribute to the problem


Hats off to ya JayCee, maybe you can ask the people in London to stop stabbing people.

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 6:19 pm

longstebe wrote:ask the people in London to stop stabbing people.


Ok, now I'm intrigued about where in London you lived such that stabbings area quite common in your area. I know it can be pretty bad over there but that makes it sound like it's the bad lands out there.

I mean, I come from a country where such crimes are common except in affluent areas (and I have never lived in affluent areas).

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longstebe
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Postby longstebe » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 7:03 pm

nakatago wrote:
longstebe wrote:ask the people in London to stop stabbing people.


Ok, now I'm intrigued about where in London you lived such that stabbings area quite common in your area. I know it can be pretty bad over there but that makes it sound like it's the bad lands out there.

I mean, I come from a country where such crimes are common except in affluent areas (and I have never lived in affluent areas).


My brother lives in Clapham.

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Postby Brah » Thu, 14 Jul 2011 9:49 pm

I'll go one further to say that I get stressed out when I see something like this and I haven't decided to do something about it, until I actual do, which is about 95% of the time.

JayCee wrote:Tell them to move their arse and give the seat to the person who needs it more, I probably do this 2-3 times a week. It doesn't stress me out at all, rather it relaxes me when I see the old lady given the seat so she doesn't have to hold on for dear life to stop from falling over.

SMS sums it up perfectly, apathy does nothing but contribute to the problem

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 15 Jul 2011 6:38 am

This

Image

Or this

Image
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!


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