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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 07 Jun 2013 4:18 pm

OMG... two informed people discussing early Genesis. Where did I leave my old coat now?

I've no idea what age you are, but as a youth the mid 70s were just hell. Gary Glitter, Mud, Sweet, Alvin Stardust, Sparks.

Then by c74 we had painful concept rock. 22minute tracks (i.e. one side of a 33) Tubular freakin bells. ... 'glockenspiel!!'..... ''''Harpsichord!''''.... ''''Me roughly sticking this microphone up my own arse'''' (it is so artistic you will love it). Supertramp. Genesis. Vom - It!

Thank God for the John Peel Show, The Fall, The Dead Kennedy's.... and all that followed...

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Postby Brah » Fri, 07 Jun 2013 10:06 pm

JR8 wrote:OMG... two informed people discussing early Genesis. Where did I leave my old coat now?

I've no idea what age you are, but as a youth the mid 70s were just hell. Gary Glitter, Mud, Sweet, Alvin Stardust, Sparks.

Then by c74 we had painful concept rock. 22minute tracks (i.e. one side of a 33) Tubular freakin bells. ... 'glockenspiel!!'..... ''''Harpsichord!''''.... ''''Me roughly sticking this microphone up my own arse'''' (it is so artistic you will love it). Supertramp. Genesis. Vom - It!

Thank God for the John Peel Show, The Fall, The Dead Kennedy's.... and all that followed...

Just goes to show, music is very subjective. For me much of the best music came out of the early 70s. While Prog featured large in that, along with what was Hard Rock, I never got the Mike Oldfield religion.

To that, while I appreciated what Punk brought and stood for, I never found myself listening to The Sex Pistols or The Clash or some of the more raw stuff by choice, even when in the Village, just didn't get the angst or couldn't relate. I liked The Ramones, and more cerebral stuff like The Dead Kennedys, and a lot more that don't come to mind, but that was just because I liked the music; in general I don't like angry music which is probably why to this day don't get Rap or its derivatives.

Having said that, I quite liked the, what I call California Punk, which is no way to be compared with 70s-80s punk; Blink-182, Sum 41, early Green Day - all had some pretty good ones. They are not in the same league as Agent Orange or The Butthole Surfers or The Meat Puppets and the like.

Odd that you listed Sparks among those more pedestrian bands. While I only heard of them much later, I found them to be pretty creative and non-mainstream, with some of their stuff pretty good, but it was what we'd call College Radio Music, because it never got airplay otherwise.

For someone who was more familiar than most of non-mainstream bands, I never heard of Mud or Alvin Stardust; in the States Gary Glitter was a one-hit-wonder on AM radio.

Genesis had its good and great stuff, I was less fond of the early albums, and post-And Then There Were Three was awful dreck I never listened to; a couple of the post-Gabriel middle albums like Wind and Wuthering I consider Classics and even Desert Island material.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 08 Jun 2013 3:20 pm

Brah wrote: Just goes to show, music is very subjective. For me much of the best music came out of the early 70s. While Prog featured large in that, along with what was Hard Rock, I never got the Mike Oldfield religion.


Subjective and tribal!

In my musically formative years a large part of your identity revolved around what kind of music was 'your music'. In the same way that you'd have 'mods vs rockers', you had punks vs rockers/hippies. So I came to find myself a teenager through much of the 70s, and teenagers want excitement, and quite possibly channels for their feelings (like challenging authority, and so on). What they do not want is some old looking boring blokes doing 'boring dirgey music' that just goes on an on, and on....

So back at that time it really was as black and white as that. It wasn't until I lived in Japan (by then in my 20s) that I discovered progressive rock, not least because Virgin Tokyo stocked a line of repressings of prog CDs. As I didn't have foreign language TV (bar for CNN) I listened to a huge amount of music. What an epiphany it was discovering bands like Focus, Greenslade, Jefferson Airplane, The Tubes and 101 others...

Brah wrote:To that, while I appreciated what Punk brought and stood for, I never found myself listening to The Sex Pistols or The Clash or some of the more raw stuff by choice, even when in the Village, just didn't get the angst or couldn't relate.


The Pistols were aimed at poor, young, angry people. They were a triumph of marketing meets the perfect market opportunity. Consider them like a white West London iteration of Niggers with Attitude. It has been said that they could not play their instruments, and that was meant in the literal sense rather than 'could not play well.

The Clash started out quite raw, but rapidly ended up commercial and mainstream. Some of their stuff was somewhat intelligent, but since they 'sold-out to the $'... who cared...

brah wrote:I liked The Ramones, and more cerebral stuff like The Dead Kennedys, and a lot more that don't come to mind, but that was just because I liked the music; in general I don't like angry music which is probably why to this day don't get Rap or its derivatives.


I like the Ramones now... great stuff. Never got to hear it much back in the day... there was one music radio channel (Radio 1), and they wouldn't get played there.

Dead Kennedy's. Great stuff too. I remember when 'Holidays in Cambodia' charted... wow!

Brah wrote: Having said that, I quite liked the, what I call California Punk, which is no way to be compared with 70s-80s punk; Blink-182, Sum 41, early Green Day - all had some pretty good ones. They are not in the same league as Agent Orange or The Butthole Surfers or The Meat Puppets and the like.


I like early Green Day too. But I'm not familiar with any of the others.

brah wrote: Odd that you listed Sparks among those more pedestrian bands. While I only heard of them much later, I found them to be pretty creative and non-mainstream, with some of their stuff pretty good, but it was what we'd call College Radio Music, because it never got airplay otherwise.


Sparks were probably a poor choice. They were pretty weird (I'm thinking specifically of 'This town ain't big enough for the both of us'') different sounding and weird looking with the keyboardist being reminiscent of Hitler. I liked them, and bought their first two chart 45's.

Brah wrote: For someone who was more familiar than most of non-mainstream bands, I never heard of Mud or Alvin Stardust; in the States Gary Glitter was a one-hit-wonder on AM radio.


Mud and the likes of Sweet, and the Bay City Rollers (etc) were pitched at the chart/ teen market. Alvin Stardust, a sort of rockabilly'esque affair (Youtube for his hit 'My coo ca choo'). Gary Glitter was majorly eccentric/OTT, even for that day.

brah wrote: Genesis had its good and great stuff, I was less fond of the early albums, and post-And Then There Were Three was awful dreck I never listened to; a couple of the post-Gabriel middle albums like Wind and Wuthering I consider Classics and even Desert Island material.


Genesis pretty much completely passed me by (too young), and Phil Collins later solo career put me off further discovery. Peter Gabriel he certainly was a talent...

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Postby Brah » Sat, 08 Jun 2013 4:25 pm

JR8 wrote:In my musically formative years a large part of your identity revolved around what kind of music was 'your music'. In the same way that you'd have 'mods vs rockers', you had punks vs rockers/hippies.

It was the same with the tribes in my surroundings as well.

Though I was more in with the Hard Rock types, the cool crowd in High School, the Freaks, were the Grateful Dead / Hot Tuna / CSNY / Neil Young / Bob Dylan tribe. While CSNY and Neil Young were easily accessible to me, it took a while for the Dead to become a favorite. Some listened to Disco, which was only just starting, I was probably a loner in liking what was the early days of Funk.

The Greasers listened to 50s Doo Wop stuff, the jocks listened to what the cool kids did when they didn't know what to listen to besides Top 40. Actually Top 40 back then was a mix of good and the usual awful stuff. It's when people like Elton John, The Doobie Brothers, James Taylor, Carole King, etc. were putting out very good Top 40, alongside something like "Afternoon Delight".

I'd need to go into the Wayback Machine to really recall all of this.

In some crowds you weren't cool if you didn't listened to what they were listening to. Even as an American I / we knew of the Mod / Rocker thing from The Who, but to this day I couldn't map it back to American tribes, there's no one-for-one there.

But when Dark Side of The Moon came out it sidelined Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple and my other staples of that time, but I think by then I was already listening to Yes. For some odd reason I didn't even hear Genesis until years later although they were already active then.


JR8 wrote:So I came to find myself a teenager through much of the 70s, and teenagers want excitement, and quite possibly channels for their feelings (like challenging authority, and so on). What they do not want is some old looking boring blokes doing 'boring dirgey music' that just goes on an on, and on....


By dirgey do you mean Prog? They were all young back then.

Brah wrote:To that, while I appreciated what Punk brought and stood for, I never found myself listening to The Sex Pistols


JR8 wrote:The Pistols were aimed at poor, young, angry people. It has been said that they could not play their instruments, and that was meant in the literal sense rather than 'could not play well.

Right, and although we did get that at the time, we couldn't relate and could get into what we would call 'no talent' music. But I was surrounded by fairly critical people, and for us what some would consider passable musicians we would call no-talents. George Thorogood, Ted Nugent come to mind but are not the best examples, I think Thorogood was of a much later generation. Heck to us, newcomers Aerosmith were borderline. And while people like Billy Gibbons was never a shredder, ZZ Top's coolness and gutsy songs qualified them.

Which is why it was such a leap for me to accept and later embrace the B-52s and Joe Jackson (who was easy because he had Graham Maby) and the simplicity of that music, where musical chops didn't come into play.


Brah wrote: Having said that, I quite liked the, what I call California Punk, which is no way to be compared with 70s-80s punk; Blink-182, Sum 41, early Green Day

Forgot to add Black Flag with Agent Orange etc.

JR8 wrote:I like early Green Day too. But I'm not familiar with any of the others.

It's been too long since I hear the older Cali Punk like Agent Orange, but the other ones were of the 90s and

Blink-182 - The Rock Show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7hhDINyBP0

Saw them backstage at a festival, was side-stage and behind the drum riser, and can say that Travis Barker is one of the most amazing drummers I've ever seen - fast, tight, tasty and amazing energy.

Actually it was this show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp5558uFwO0

Sum 41 - Fatlip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMX2lPum_pg


JR8 wrote:Genesis pretty much completely passed me by (too young), and Phil Collins later solo career put me off further discovery. Peter Gabriel he certainly was a talent...

There are the Gabriel / non-Gabriel camps in Genesis fans; Gabriel was / is talented and did even better stuff solo in the 80s.

Not to twist your arm but when you have time to hear an album front-to-back Selling England By The Pound is a very good effort from them. Having said that, I feel the live versions of song from that album done on the Seconds Out are much better, but SEBTP is one of those albums that flows song to song whereas Seconds Out is a good live and hits offering. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FNAF14jrtA

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Postby martincymru » Sat, 08 Jun 2013 8:40 pm

I suppose for me it's not just the music but my youth, what I and the world was doing at that time....bla bla... still evocative for me so many years later.

I like fun, overly pretentious is a laugh, in fact laugh at yourself and everything else; take Queen/Freddie Mercury ..... so camp they got away with it.

My girlfriend say Mike Oldfield Hergest Ridge is funeral music. Hey, this is my Epitaph (King Crimson) music for when I go.

BarclayJames Harvest LIVE is a great album. Northern band which for me have that unpretentiousness which, after all, I pefer to pretentiousness. Fact they never made it big kind of adds to their appeal.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 08 Jun 2013 8:46 pm

MGMT - Kids live @ Glastonbury 2010 HD High Qualityhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QnCT6-C7AM

always makes me smile...
(despite being the uber-cliched cliche of a 4-chord song... )


p.s. love the ample-hung brunette at 1.05, cutting shapes. Bet she's a feast of fun in bed...

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Postby Brah » Sun, 09 Jun 2013 1:21 am

For something a little different:

Porcupine Tree - DeadWing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMEwM3YHiME

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 09 Jun 2013 6:12 pm

Yes that was... the vocal harmonies (at points) remind me of Crosby Stills Nash and young. Then at others of the likes of 80s Genesis...
And at 9:49 long that's pretty bold for a minor modern band...

Very different, interesting, thx!

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Postby the lynx » Mon, 10 Jun 2013 9:30 am

A female's voice for a change.

Paula Cole - Where have all the cowboys gone?

http://youtu.be/JPR108kwNo4

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 13 Jun 2013 9:58 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkw6vWd2Aec
Caracal [Bear. Shark. Wolf] - 05 Cheers To Love

Woof!


Love it.....

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 15 Jun 2013 10:12 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pvx-6nSGE
'Daft Punk feat. Pharrell Williams & Nile Rodgers - Get Lucky'

Check out Nile Rodgers on lead (the guy with mini-dredds) .... OMTG!

Used to listen to his music under the covers after lights out at school 30 year ago... he rocks, he is the funk-meister :lol:

This is just Wow!

There is a funking God...



p.s. A few ago I'd have been down at Zouk on top of a podium seriously cutting shapes to this one.... oh yes!! :)

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:53 pm

Sugarhill Gang - Rapper's Delight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diiL9bqvalo

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:09 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51OB2YoC4sg
The Buzzcocks - Ever Fallen In Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've)



Love the '2:45 jukebox lyrics'.....

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 9:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOmN3jXL5OU

Sham 69 - Hurry Up Harry




'We;re going darn the pub....'



:-D Nice (Yanks won't get it)

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 17 Jun 2013 9:35 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_Tg8iHwZ8The B-52's - Private Idaho (1980)

...


Watching a music vid
Being so pathetically grateful that I can finally connect today


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