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Dual Citizenship for New Born - New Zealander & Singaporean?

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mrslaw
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Dual Citizenship for New Born - New Zealander & Singapor

Post by mrslaw » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:31 am

Hi,

I can't really find any concrete information on the above on the internet. Thus I decided to post my query here!

My husband is a New Zealander and I'm Singaporean. We got married in Singapore & will be moving to NZ this year. I have already obtained my NZ resident visa.

The complication here is that we are expecting a baby early August. My husband has already got a new job back in NZ & is expecting to start work in September. We have emailed NZ High Commission and they said the processing of citizenship by descent takes approximately 6 weeks & urgent service for the passport process takes 3 days. So we are expecting a total of 7 weeks or so. However, we can't wait that long.

My question is this - is it possible for our baby to register as a citizen of Singapore and obtain a Singapore passport (any one has any idea how long this takes, the ICA website only states the cost, not the turnaround time), and meanwhile, we register our baby as a citizen of New Zealander as well? Is dual citizenship in this instance possible?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Mrs Law

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Post by beppi » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:43 pm

A baby born in Singapore to a Singaporean parent (one is enough) is AUTOMATICALLY Singapore citizen and that citizenship CANNOT be renounced before 21 years of age AND national service is completed (for boys only, and there are very few and difficult ways around it - ask Mad Scientist if interested).
Double citizenship is tolerated until then, but not any more afterwards (he/she would have to choose one).

The birth cert issued by the hospital will say he/she is Singapore citizen. You can apply for a Singapore passport with that. I forgot how long it took in our case, but shorter than the period the doctors didn't allow air travel anyway (I think that was 6 weeks, but please ask your paediatrician).

If you give birth outside of Singapore, citizenship needs to be applied for (i.e. it, and the NS obligation that comes with it, are optional) .

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Post by Saint » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 3:31 pm

I thought I read/heard that you can renounce SG Citizenship before becoming 11yo?? Between 11yo and 21yo males aren't able to remounce?

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree so best wait for SMSMS

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 4:21 pm

Saint wrote:I thought I read/heard that you can renounce SG Citizenship before becoming 11yo?? Between 11yo and 21yo males aren't able to remounce?

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree so best wait for SMSMS
http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic61423.html
This is the interesting bit where most of the problems arise. I will start with a broad statement that is mostly true:

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
1) has another citizenship before the age of 11
2) informs Mindef of his intention to renounce Singaporean citizenship and applies for the necessary exit permits from the age of 13 and obtains deferment at 18
3) does not use or benefit from Singaporean citizenship after 11
4) finally renounces Singaporean citizenship at 21

1) This is a very important point that is often missed. The child must be a citizen of another country before 11, whether by being born there, or having a parent from that country, or by naturalization before 11. Permanent residence/ green card etc. is not citizenship.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Saint » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 4:58 pm

We are all assuming the baby is going to be male!

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Re: Dual Citizenship for New Born - New Zealander & Sing

Post by Mad Scientist » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 5:31 pm

mrslaw wrote:Hi,

I can't really find any concrete information on the above on the internet. Thus I decided to post my query here!

My husband is a New Zealander and I'm Singaporean. We got married in Singapore & will be moving to NZ this year. I have already obtained my NZ resident visa.

The complication here is that we are expecting a baby early August. My husband has already got a new job back in NZ & is expecting to start work in September. We have emailed NZ High Commission and they said the processing of citizenship by descent takes approximately 6 weeks & urgent service for the passport process takes 3 days. So we are expecting a total of 7 weeks or so. However, we can't wait that long.

Yes you are right , after Feb 2005 all NZ PRs are not entitled to NZ Citizenship if the child is born in NZ by a NZ PR resident. I guess your NZ PR is definite under section 18 a . When will it go indefinite ?
Your husband needs to apply LTSVP for child as the father is a NZ citizen if NZ citizenship fails.
Have you e-mail to Department of Internal Affairs ?
http://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Citizen ... enDocument


My question is this - is it possible for our baby to register as a citizen of Singapore and obtain a Singapore passport (any one has any idea how long this takes, the ICA website only states the cost, not the turnaround time), and meanwhile, we register our baby as a citizen of New Zealander as well? Is dual citizenship in this instance possible?

Your child is a male ? If you want to give birth in SG. The turn around is One Day if you wish to pay thru the nose or three days if you wish to pay with your hand or 7 days for normal application. I think it is $250, $150 and $80 respectively. I cannot give you exact cost as it has been awhile but the price range is there.
If you are giving birth here, the child is a SG citizen. Yes he can acquire dual citizen of another country.
Think hard on which route you are going to do.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Mrs Law
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Post by mrslaw » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 1:29 am

Thanks very much to everyone for all the info! :)

Fortunately, the baby's gonna be a GIRL, phew!!!

I have only obtained my NZ resident visa last week. There are 2 types according to the info given to me by NZ Immigration - resident visa & permanent resident visa. I have to renew my resident visa in 2 years time. There are certain criteria to meet before I can obtain the permanent resident visa.

This is the reply from NZ High Commission:

Thank you for your email.

The proceedure is that two forms have to be completed. First the "Citizenship by Descent" Form which also requires certain documentation to be submitted with it and secondly a NZ passport application form for a child. We have these forms in our office here in Singapore or alternatively you can download from www.passports.govt.nz and http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/w ... enDocument

Both will also require photos of the baby.

If you submit the paperwork through us, we will take Certified True Copies of the original documents that you are required to submit. We only send a bag to Wellington once a bag with all the applications we receive. It is sent on a Tuesday morning.

The standard processing time frame for a Citizenship by Descent is 6 weeks, after it is processed the documentation is then sent on to the Passport Office which can then take another 1-2 weeks depending upon the level of service you have chosen.

If you wish to discuss any of these points please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards

New Zealand High Commission
391A Orchard Rd
#15-06/10
Ngee Ann City
Singapore 238873
Ph: 62359966

So I don't think there would be any problem obtaining NZ citizenship for our baby, it really is just the turnaround time of 6-8 weeks that we are concern about. Cuz we have to leave 4 weeks after baby is born!

I have discussed with my husband today and we'll email NZ's Department of Internal Affairs to check if there are any implications by doing the following:

After baby girl is born in August in Singapore (I'm already into 34 weeks of pregnancy now so I can't see myself flying off to NZ to give birth!) and since baby will automatically be a Singapore citizen, we'll apply for Singapore passport for baby cuz the turnaound time seem to be much faster! Then we'll fly off to NZ in September as planned and subsequently apply for NZ citizenship & passport for baby in NZ. Our concern is that since I've already got the NZ resident visa, I can get a one-way ticket to NZ. But if baby has a Singapore passport, we are wondering if I need to get a round trip ticket instead. I guess we'll just have to wait for their reply... :)

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Post by beppi » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 1:39 am

Please make sure you discuss these plans with your paediatrician after birth and he agrees. Not all newborns are in the pink of health!
We were told the pressure change during take-off and landing is torture for a newborn (breastfeed at that time, as swallowing relieves the pressure build-up and keeps her from crying!) and below-6-weeks-olds are not suitable for it (even when healthy).
You probably also overestimate the amount of distress you'll be able to tolerate after birth. Idling in Singapore for a few more weeks will do you no harm!

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Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 4:06 am

mrslaw wrote: Fortunately, the baby's gonna be a GIRL, phew!!!

I have only obtained my NZ resident visa last week. There are 2 types according to the info given to me by NZ Immigration - resident visa & permanent resident visa. I have to renew my resident visa in 2 years time. There are certain criteria to meet before I can obtain the permanent resident visa.

The NZ PR is almost similar to SG. Your resident permit is indefinite but your RRP (Returning Resident Visa) which is similar to REP in SG has a 2 years validity. You need to make it indefinite once it reaches 2 years due date. Go and see your section 18a clause. It is written on the labels pasted in your SG PP. You should have two label. One is RP and the other RRV. What does it state on the section 18 a clause ?


So I don't think there would be any problem obtaining NZ citizenship for our baby, it really is just the turnaround time of 6-8 weeks that we are concern about. Cuz we have to leave 4 weeks after baby is born!

If you think you can expect like SG Gahmen efficiency, you are in for a real rude shock. In OZ and NZ , most of us are on the third gear. We hardly move to 4th gear !!. Citizenship application is much faster doing it from NZ. You do not need to go down to Welly. Everything via snail mail. Just make sure you get a JP at the local CAB for the BC and other docs

I have discussed with my husband today and we'll email NZ's Department of Internal Affairs to check if there are any implications by doing the following:

After baby girl is born in August in Singapore (I'm already into 34 weeks of pregnancy now so I can't see myself flying off to NZ to give birth!) and since baby will automatically be a Singapore citizen, we'll apply for Singapore passport for baby cuz the turnaound time seem to be much faster! Then we'll fly off to NZ in September as planned and subsequently apply for NZ citizenship & passport for baby in NZ. Our concern is that since I've already got the NZ resident visa, I can get a one-way ticket to NZ. But if baby has a Singapore passport, we are wondering if I need to get a round trip ticket instead. I guess we'll just have to wait for their reply... :)

Do not need that as baby will get 90 days Social Visit Pass in NZ hence a single one way ticket for both of you will suffice.
BTW it is bloody winter here. I am at CHCH with CERA . You do not want to fly in with baby as the flu bug is everywhere. Where will you be living?

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Post by taxico » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:39 am

Mad Scientist wrote:If you think you can expect like SG Gahmen efficiency, you are in for a real rude shock. In OZ and NZ , most of us are on the third gear. We hardly move to 4th gear !!
you can also obtain the email address of your visa officer (the person in charge of your application - whatever they're called) to make sure they are not dragging their feet...

my wife's kiwi permit (skilled migrant) took 18 months to process although when she first applied, it was advised that as everything was in order, it will take only 6 months.

the visa officer also took her time to approve/vet everything so when the visa was finally issued (through china), my wife didn't want to go to new zealand anymore as she had secured a great job else where.

my wife's experience is that... unless you prod them (visa office persons), they sorta lay dormant.
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Post by Mad Scientist » Thu, 23 Jun 2011 4:14 am

^^^^+1
@taxico, if your wife's PR which maybe has RRV due date, she needs to have it indefinte or else the PRship will be revoke. To do that, make a trip to NZ and stay for a few days and go to the Immgration Services. There is one in Manukau if you are arriving via Auckland. pay NZ$40 and have a new label pasted on the PP and she will be good to go. PR in OZ and NZ is getting harder to acquire. If you have done that then forget about what I said.
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Post by ksbat » Thu, 23 Jun 2011 9:31 am

I would like to refute that remark by the pediatrician. I flew with my baby when she was 10 days old. I also flew another time (with another baby) at 3 weeks. Not once (in Aust) was I told that it may be uncomfortable for her.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Jun 2011 9:56 am

ksbat wrote:I would like to refute that remark by the pediatrician. I flew with my baby when she was 10 days old. I also flew another time (with another baby) at 3 weeks. Not once (in Aust) was I told that it may be uncomfortable for her.
From the looks of your posts, I reckon you probably didn't bother to ask either. And, the baby sure wasn't talking to tell you at the point.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by beppi » Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:15 am

Fact is that ALL babies on a plane cry during take-off and landing.
I assume they do this because they're not comfortable.

Newborns are not able to equalize pressure in their internal passages and thus external pressure changes are painful. Swallowing helps (and Mama's body warmth, too), thus the recommendation to breastfeed.
Stories of raptured eardrums are a myth (something else will give way first!), but the whole matter can cause discomfort that lasts a few days.

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Post by taxico » Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:01 am

Mad Scientist wrote:^^^^+1
@taxico, if your wife's PR which maybe has RRV due date, she needs to have it indefinte or else the PRship will be revoke. To do that, make a trip to NZ and stay for a few days and go to the Immgration Services.
i think that might be the reason why she wants to head to nz later this year (summer down south)...

thanks for the heads up and i hope everything is well down in "boot" country. i miss it!

btw, do you know if the scientists are predicting more quakes? part of the reason why i left was because the 100 year quake was way over due... i want to go back but not to earthquakes.
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