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Dual citizenships and NS issues

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kita72
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Dual citizenships and NS issues

Postby kita72 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 1:58 am

Hi everyone,

My son was born in Singapore and has dual citizenships. We left Singapore when he was 4 mths old. Due to my husband's work (he's non Singaporean with EP, I'm Singapore citizen by birth), we came back 2 yrs ago when son was almost 7y/o. We were asked to go ICA to get a 'Right of Entry' stamp on his foreign passport which we did. We didn't apply Singaporean passport for him all the while. He goes to a local school here and now is in Primary 2 . We are leaving Singapore for good 2 years old from now. My questions are as follow:

1) Do I contact Mindef about his intention to renounce his Singapore citizenship before 11 y/o or at 13 y/o when he also has to apply for exit permit?

2) What about the bond issue? Do we have to post a bond after the first exit permit expires?

3) I read somewhere in the forum that males liable for NS who emigrated at a young age and do not enjoy any substantial amount of socio-economic benefits (pink IC, SIN pp and studied beyond the age of 11 y/o) are allow to apply for deferment of NS pending renounciation at age 21 y/o. Does studying in local school before 11 y/o consider as having enjoyed substantial amount of socio economic benefits?

4) Is there any chance that he might be able to avoid serving his NS?


Thanks a ton!

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Re: Dual citizenships and NS issues

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 3:55 am

kita72 wrote:Hi everyone,

My son was born in Singapore and has dual citizenships. We left Singapore when he was 4 mths old. Due to my husband's work (he's non Singaporean with EP, I'm Singapore citizen by birth), we came back 2 yrs ago when son was almost 7y/o. We were asked to go ICA to get a 'Right of Entry' stamp on his foreign passport which we did. We didn't apply Singaporean passport for him all the while. He goes to a local school here and now is in Primary 2 . We are leaving Singapore for good 2 years old from now. My questions are as follow:

1) Do I contact Mindef about his intention to renounce his Singapore citizenship before 11 y/o or at 13 y/o when he also has to apply for exit permit?

What do you want to do ? Do you want him to renounce his SG citizenship or just deferred till 18. ?

2) What about the bond issue? Do we have to post a bond after the first exit permit expires?

3) I read somewhere in the forum that males liable for NS who emigrated at a young age and do not enjoy any substantial amount of socio-economic benefits (pink IC, SIN pp and studied beyond the age of 11 y/o) are allow to apply for deferment of NS pending renounciation at age 21 y/o. Does studying in local school before 11 y/o consider as having enjoyed substantial amount of socio economic benefits?

4) Is there any chance that he might be able to avoid serving his NS?

Answer my question then I will tell you the rest. If you are thinking of circumventing this guideline i.e not letting go the SG citizenship at the same time provide him education till tertiary overseas , you are in for a rude shock. Having said that it is good you make plans now and discuss with your family the next course of action.

Thanks a ton!
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

kita72
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Dual citizenship and NS issues

Postby kita72 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:17 am

Hi MS, thanks for taking time to reply .

1) We want to renounce his Singapore citizenship.

2) It's a permanent move back to my husband's hometown, not coming back to Singapore. A short while ago, I did contact Mindef and they said to write in (when son turns 13) to declare the intention to renounce his Singapore citizenship when they will then review his case and give us a reply.

Sorry I am not clear about the proper guidelines and I hope to get a clearer picture.
Thanks again!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 6:38 pm

OK Kita

Here goes

1. You apply his EP at 13 years of age. Right at the DOB. You have 3 months to register his EP from his DOB. If you fail then you can never renounce his SG Citizenship at 21. CMPB cannot capture anything below 13
Apply for 2 years EP. You can get 1 yr 364 days EP without any bonds required
2. Bond issue is a NON issue for you as your intention is to renounce SG Citizenship. Right after that write to CMPB and ICA and state your intention to renounce your child SG citizenship. CMPB will send a letter with some docs for you to fill and supply all necessary docs to prove that your child is schooled overseas, holding foreign PP yadda yadda yadda. You need to certify that with a Public Notary and sent it out via snail mail.
3. It will take about two weeks for them to consider your application
4. Mindef/CMPB will reply to you by then. If you are successful, the reply letter will come with another separate doc "Application for deferment pending renounciation at 21". Do everything all over again as No. 2
5. Then send it over via snail mail to CMPB only. ICA will reply to you too stating that your case has been transferred to CMPB.
6. At the turn of 16 and 1/2 or 17 ,depends, you will need to register your son for NS Preenlistment. You have to do that .
7. The first EP at 13 for the next 2 years. Then reapply at 15 till 16 1/2 . Once registered for NS, CMPB will issue a longer EP till 21.
8. This can only happened once the application to defer has been approved. If it is not approve at the age of 16 and your son needs to complete his formal education i.e till A level or Diploma or High School in US or YR 12 in OZ or YR 13 in NZ then post a bond of $75 K or two sureties if you do not have the means. One is yourself and the other is a living relative in SG. This is to ensure child returns after formal education to serve NS
9. Formal education below 13 is NOT considered as enjoying socio benefits
10. If your intention is to renounce, use foreign PP to travel, you have to renounce SG citizenship and clear all your CPF money, IRAS , HDB pr any related liabilities with Gahmen as CMPB/Mindef looks at every application as a family unit. If you renounce first, chances of your child avoiding NS is 99.0 % The other 1% maybe they do not like you.

How's this for an explanation ?
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby kita72 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 9:36 pm

Hi MS, thank you for your prompt reply. After going through the procedures you stated, I definitely got a clearer picture now. :) With your guidelines, I can at least rest assured that I am tackling this issue the proper way. Should there be any hiccups along the way, we know we have tried our best. I really appreciate your help, thank you once again!

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Postby kita72 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:47 pm

Hi MS, it's me again. :-| Well, i hope you can enlighten me on this issue about my daughter. She was born overseas and shortly after, we applied Singapore citizenship for her. I wish to know can she renounce her citizenship before 21y/o or it has to be at 21? What if at 15y/o, ICA send letter asking us to apply Singapore IC for her? Do we just ignore?
I also read somewhere in the forum that Mindef view NS exemption base on family entirety (eg.like parent side renouncing Singapore citizenship).What if daughter can only renounce her citizenship at age 21, will it affect how MINDEF view my son's NS issue? Really sorry to post such questions to you but when it comes to matters relating to Gahmen, nothing is ever crystal clear. Million thanks!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 4:08 am

kita72 wrote:Hi MS, thank you for your prompt reply. After going through the procedures you stated, I definitely got a clearer picture now. :) With your guidelines, I can at least rest assured that I am tackling this issue the proper way. Should there be any hiccups along the way, we know we have tried our best. I really appreciate your help, thank you once again!


Hey no worries. We are here to help. I think you can get more answers here than the Ministries.
I do not think you will have issues in getting the renunciation if you follow the steps laid out by Kraikk. Just do not fumble and stumble with the timeline as your son's future lies in your hands
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 4:16 am

kita72 wrote:Hi MS, it's me again. :-| Well, i hope you can enlighten me on this issue about my daughter. She was born overseas and shortly after, we applied Singapore citizenship for her. I wish to know can she renounce her citizenship before 21y/o or it has to be at 21? What if at 15y/o, ICA send letter asking us to apply Singapore IC for her? Do we just ignore?
I also read somewhere in the forum that Mindef view NS exemption base on family entirety (eg.like parent side renouncing Singapore citizenship).What if daughter can only renounce her citizenship at age 21, will it affect how MINDEF view my son's NS issue? Really sorry to post such questions to you but when it comes to matters relating to Gahmen, nothing is ever crystal clear. Million thanks!


TWENTY ONE my dear just like the GPMG machine gun when we fired at the target , we will shout TWEN......TY......ONE......... is the magic number
Write back to ICA staitng she will be renouncing her SG citizenship at 21 and you do not need to pick up the IC.
Yes, more for the boy if you wish to renounce his SG citizenship at 21.
It does not affect daughter as she hold dual citizenship till 21, by then ICA will send a letter requesting her to decide on which citizenship she wishes to hold or renounce. If she decides to hold to SG, she has to renounce foreign citizenship and take an Oath of Allegiance to SG at 21.

Here is a question for both of you. Why in the world did you attain SG citizenship for both of your kids if you going to renounce it later ?
Foreign born child of SG descent can attain dual citizenship but this is a death trap for most unless you want to make SG your kids home.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby kita72 » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:04 am

Hi MS, thanks once again for your helpful insights. :)

My son was born in Singapore so he is a Singapore citizen by birth as stated on his Birth Certificate. Daughter was born overseas but yes we applied for SC for her. At that time when we did so, we had plans to settle in Singapore but due to hubby's work issues and his family back home, we eventually decided to move permanently back to his home country. It would certainly be easier if we settle in Singapore for good as we are not against son serving his NS. But since we are moving away permanently (son loves dad's home country and chose to stay there), we see no reasons for him to serve.

We discussed all these issues together as a family even if son is still young, he has expressed his desires to stay for good in dad's home country. For me, I try to do what I can for my kids and what is deem best for them under such circumstances. It's like a roller coaster ride but the ride has to come to an end sometime. We understand we aren't the only family having to face all these issues. And afterall, life ain't a bed of roses as the saying goes. So we will just do our best. :)

So MS, thanks so much for your help providing the guidelines to let us know how to handle our son's case. Really appreciate it. Have a good day!
:)


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