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The "pecking order" of Japanese beers?

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Postby aster » Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:17 pm

There's a Fairprice there too. :) Isn't one of the Harry's Bars located on this side of immigration?

When it comes to froth, it gives you a pretty good indication of the quality of the beer you're drinking, so when trying something new I pour it straight down - smack into the bottom of the glass - so as to generate as much foam as possible.

With the Jap beers you're going to be impressed, but try this with any of the main global "brands" and you'll likely get stomach convulsions when trying the foam, and that doesn't speak well of the beer itself... But then those so-called global brands are like "brewed today, bottled tomorrow." Or later today even... ;)

I like weiss beers too, but have have had way too many in recent years.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:49 am

aster wrote:There's a Fairprice there too. :) Isn't one of the Harry's Bars located on this side of immigration?

I think Cheers is a subsid of Fairprice, I'm unaware of any other 'supermarket/convenience' store style shops on the streetside in any terminal. And believe me I had a 6hr lay-over street-side there not so long ago.

There used to be a pub on the streetside of T1 called Bentleys or similar. But with the renovation that went on that disappeared for, well certainly 18 months. Maybe it has reopened now?


When it comes to froth, it gives you a pretty good indication of the quality of the beer you're drinking, so when trying something new I pour it straight down - smack into the bottom of the glass - so as to generate as much foam as possible.

So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?

With the Jap beers you're going to be impressed, but try this with any of the main global "brands" and you'll likely get stomach convulsions when trying the foam, and that doesn't speak well of the beer itself... But then those so-called global brands are like "brewed today, bottled tomorrow." Or later today even... ;)

Don't know about you but I want beer and not foam

I like weiss beers too, but have have had way too many in recent years.

Me too - the regular tipple costs e0.29/.5l at the corner shop. Paulaner weiss-bier is e0.60 or so.... temptation!

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 8:06 am

aster wrote:There's a Fairprice there too. :) Isn't one of the Harry's Bars located on this side of immigration?

When it comes to froth, it gives you a pretty good indication of the quality of the beer you're drinking, so when trying something new I pour it straight down - smack into the bottom of the glass - so as to generate as much foam as possible.

With the Jap beers you're going to be impressed, but try this with any of the main global "brands" and you'll likely get stomach convulsions when trying the foam, and that doesn't speak well of the beer itself... But then those so-called global brands are like "brewed today, bottled tomorrow." Or later today even... ;)

I like weiss beers too, but have have had way too many in recent years.

The head as an indication of the quality I think it can be a tricky one. There are many additives (surfactants) available even for home brewing that improve the head and probably nothing more (if not spoiling the rest). What you taste in the foam are likely these additives as surfactants tend to have higher concentration in the foam. There may be nothing wrong in it (they could be natural) but it not necessarily tells anything about the liquid part.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 8:20 am

JR8 wrote:So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?

Actually Nitrogen is more responsible for the "creamy" part of the foam in the Guinness type. What promotes the foam are IIRC some polypeptides naturally occurring in malt and CO2.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 4:03 pm

x9200 wrote:
JR8 wrote:So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?

Actually Nitrogen is more responsible for the "creamy" part of the foam in the Guinness type. What promotes the foam are IIRC some polypeptides naturally occurring in malt and CO2.


I understand that when Guinness was drawn on hand-pull (manual bar pumps, not powered by N2/CO2) that it was as 'flat' as real ale is today.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 4:33 pm

No necessary. I don't know how it was manufactured but in a typical fermentation process you have a loads of CO2 coming from the fermentation itself. Beers I brewed at home got pretty nice head and no external CO2 was pumped to the bottles. First stage was a fermentation in a bigger container (not pressurized) after that the clear part (yeast got precipitated) was transferred to the bottles with a little bit of some priming sugar. The beer was not pasteurized so some yeast was still there happily eating the sugar and producing CO2 as the side product. You can do the same using some kegs and the pasteurization process is not in common use for longer than 2 centuries so maybe it was done this way - BTW, champagne is produced for longer than that time using similar technology.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 4:40 pm

There's a name for this double fermentation isn't there (I forget). Would that be like a German/Belgic doppel beer?

p.s. used to help my dad brewing beer, back in the 70's... ah, happy memories :) Did one batch for myself of 'barley wine'.... that's so knock-out it must have been double fermented.... but I forget now!

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Postby aster » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:05 pm

JR8 wrote:So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?


Nope, because no matter how much CO2 you pump into a glass of Heiny it will still taste nasty, and the foam will be nasty, and it won't really stay up long anyway... so CO2 doesn't always work like a Viagra for beer foam. ;)

Now with the Japanese beers it's unlikely they're pumping any strange stuff into their beers, it's more likely the traditional brewing process that gives a normal lager-type beer a proper head.

As for weiss beers, had too much already. Not interested in the Hoegaarden/Paulaner/Erdinger type beers at present, the only place I would go for a wheat beer nowadays is a microbrewery. :)

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Postby aster » Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:08 pm

JR8 wrote:There's a name for this double fermentation isn't there (I forget). Would that be like a German/Belgic doppel beer?


Isn't that something to do with "upper fermentation" or something like that?

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 2:13 am

aster wrote:
JR8 wrote:So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?


Nope, because no matter how much CO2 you pump into a glass of Heiny it will still taste nasty, and the foam will be nasty, and it won't really stay up long anyway... so CO2 doesn't always work like a Viagra for beer foam. ;)

Now with the Japanese beers it's unlikely they're pumping any strange stuff into their beers, it's more likely the traditional brewing process that gives a normal lager-type beer a proper head.

As for weiss beers, had too much already. Not interested in the Hoegaarden/Paulaner/Erdinger type beers at present, the only place I would go for a wheat beer nowadays is a microbrewery. :)


A beer snob :lol:

Good luck finding a micro in germany ...

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 8:15 am

aster wrote:
JR8 wrote:So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?


Nope, because no matter how much CO2 you pump into a glass of Heiny it will still taste nasty, and the foam will be nasty, and it won't really stay up long anyway... so CO2 doesn't always work like a Viagra for beer foam. ;)

I don't like Heineken neither but you may add some egg white and surely the head will be impressive and stable. Quality boost guaranteed :P

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 8:20 am

aster wrote:
JR8 wrote:There's a name for this double fermentation isn't there (I forget). Would that be like a German/Belgic doppel beer?


Isn't that something to do with "upper fermentation" or something like that?

I think it is a different process - priming for CO2 is not considered as a true 2nd stage fermentation. Sometimes a different yeast and more malt can be added for an added flavour. This would be the double fermentation.

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Postby aster » Wed, 22 Jun 2011 9:18 am

JR8 wrote:
A beer snob :lol:

Good luck finding a micro in germany ...


Well, I don't drink German beers, in fact I make a general effort to steer well clear of them. :)

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Postby SingMan » Wed, 29 Jun 2011 1:30 am

JR8 wrote:
aster wrote:
JR8 wrote:So if I produce a beer and put double the standard amount of N2 into it, and it {surprise} comes out with a raging head on it, you'd be impressed?


Nope, because no matter how much CO2 you pump into a glass of Heiny it will still taste nasty, and the foam will be nasty, and it won't really stay up long anyway... so CO2 doesn't always work like a Viagra for beer foam. ;)

Now with the Japanese beers it's unlikely they're pumping any strange stuff into their beers, it's more likely the traditional brewing process that gives a normal lager-type beer a proper head.

As for weiss beers, had too much already. Not interested in the Hoegaarden/Paulaner/Erdinger type beers at present, the only place I would go for a wheat beer nowadays is a microbrewery. :)


A beer snob :lol:

Good luck finding a micro in germany ...


Many (most?) German breweries have considerably smaller production than what would be considered a microbrew in other parts of the world...

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 29 Jun 2011 1:45 am

SingMan wrote:Many (most?) German breweries have considerably smaller production than what would be considered a microbrew in other parts of the world...


How so?

Or are you relying on the fact that say Singapore has 5 breweries and Germany has 250,000?


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