Singapore Expats

Employment Pass or PR?

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beppi
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Post by beppi » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 1:25 pm

carteki wrote:Looks like you're wearing some of these...
Image

Its way better to look after your own money yourself (and never give it to the government)
No, I am NOT wearing one of these - and I COMPLETELY agree that taking care of savings yourself (if you have the means and discipline for it, which many people don't) is the preferable way.

But if I have to contribute to to a retirement scheme, I sure prefer CPF over what is common in Europe. And if I have to let a government manage my savings, I trust Singapore more than any other.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 4:01 pm

Frankly, I'm with beppi on this one. While I'm already eligible to draw US Social Security, it's so small it's almost not worth it as I contributed by 10 quarters over 3 decades ago. And, even then, the odds of me collecting all of it back are virtually nil, however, I'll get more than most Americans as I'll not have put that much into the system in the first place.

The beauty of CPF is that, if you are a PR and don't take up citizenship, when you give up your PR, you get ALL of it back, every dime, including interest. And you don't have to wait till you are 55 or 60 or 65. And Risk on Risk you cannot show me another investment that will beat it. Plus an additional 1% on the first 60K. Ordinary account earns 2.5%, Special & Medisave accounts earn 4%. Sounds good to me, as you are only parking a portion of your investments there.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

phizzer15
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Post by phizzer15 » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 6:30 pm

Thanks MadScientist, checked ICA website, doesn't say how long the LTSVP can be? Is this something needing renewal and is this likely to be done? Also, if my wife sponsors him, is it LVSVP, citizenship or nothing? Can't get PR? That seems weird.

sundaymorningstaple, if you give up PR, will you ever get it back? If that's true, it does sounds like a pretty good deal. All plus interest. In Australia, can't touch my superannuation until I retire.

carteki, how many times you used that jpg?

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Post by beppi » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 6:43 pm

Re-gaining PR is possible, but difficult (you need to give very good reasons why "permanent" residency wasn't permanent in your case, but will be on second application). If you have taken out your CPF in the meantime, it is more difficult still - and you'd have to put back the same amount plus interest to get the PR back.

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Post by ecureilx » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 6:46 pm

phizzer15 wrote: sundaymorningstaple, if you give up PR, will you ever get it back? If that's true, it does sounds like a pretty good deal. All plus interest. In Australia, can't touch my superannuation until I retire.
Well, I dunno how much you will belive it, but I know atleast 3 guys who got back every $, with interest, 1 Indian, and 2 Filipino .. and when you pack up back home, a pocket money of 200,000 or so is not bad, on top of your savings .. ;) And hence the ICA's sharp eyes, and often selecting people and inviting them to get Citizenship, and if they refuse, their PR renewal gets misplaced. . I know a few cases it happaned, and in one case, the Indian friend, who had bought a HDB house during the late 90's boom, refused to take up citizenship and had to sell it at a massive loss and had to top up 60K for the loss ..

and give up all his PR benefits (car-lease, Credit card onwards .. ) Of course, he didn't get his CPF as he was still here on EP, and only when he decided to bye to Singapore (and angrily cursing the govt for not letting him make maximum $ using all available govt endorsed solutions .. like HDB, CPF .. and more .. ) did he have the option to take out his CPF !!!

The caveat is .. if you decide to come back, you got to replace every cent of what you took out, if not, not even a Work-pass, toilet cleaner work is open for you ..

PS: there was this PR guy, who, in the mass media mentioned that he had bought a HDB house, plus living in a private apartment .. and I am not sure if you guys remember the hoo-haa it created, when he too had sort of told he is here only to make $ and buzz off ..

phizzer15
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Post by phizzer15 » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 6:50 pm

Thanks beppi

Guess better be sure when you leave. Not easy when wife is Singaporean. Never say never.

I guess main thing about making decision will be lifestyle with salary compared to Australia. Certainly don't want to be financially worse off, we're beyond an "experience" of living in Singapore.

We'll do public transport, hawker centres and local school. condo and maid are things we 'need' I think.

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Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 15 Jun 2011 4:12 am

phizzer15 wrote:Thanks MadScientist, checked ICA website, doesn't say how long the LTSVP can be? Is this something needing renewal and is this likely to be done? Also, if my wife sponsors him, is it LVSVP, citizenship or nothing? Can't get PR? That seems weird.
It never had and never will. That is the beauty of it. Everything is thrown up in the air. Based on previous practise, it can be from 6 months to 5 years to get an LTSVP. Your wife as the local sponsor needs to have a minimal income of $2.5K (but I think this will change to $3K). You cannot work under LTSVP. You can look for a job but then one change your pass from LTSVP to EP thru MOM if your future employer is able to convince MOM that you are a "star".
LTSVP expires hence it will require renewal. You are from Ozzie , you should know this even under skill migrant pass requires renewal . Even PR there is NO indefinite PR under sponsors.It is a 5 yr PR pass and you should remain in OZ for that period or else it will be revoke
Since your wife is a Sger, she can sponsor your LTSVP . Stay here for a wee while , more like 2 years now then apply for PR under family ties. Consider getting your child too as this will tilt the application towards you. To make it watertight apply child for dual citizenship. I know this will result in NS issues but even you apply for PR for child and yourself, your child is considered 2nd Gen PR which requires him to serve NS.
Or do not declare your child born to a SG MOM. This will mean only EP route is the option.
Consider Entrepass and set up a business here is another option where the business can apply EP for you and then on get DP for your child
Does this makes sense ?
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Post by Saint » Wed, 15 Jun 2011 9:02 am

Just my thoughts and opinions on this
phizzer15 wrote:Am considering relocating back to Singapore from Australia. As my wife is Singapore, I can get PR easily (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm guessing you will be applying for PR via your Singaporean Spouse. Yes it is easy to apply but getting approval isn't as easy these days. So don't be surprised if your application is turned down

What would people advise? Get EP and forget CPF and rely on employer sponsor or get PR, easy for employment but contribute to CPF.

Keep in mind, this could be a 5-7 year move, and wife already owns a HDB so buying one is out of question.

As you have mentioned you don't intend to stay in Singapore permanently (do remember what PR stands for) then what's the point in applying for PR? In the past, far too many people became PRs purely as a short term saving plan and to take advantage of the benefits attached, keeping their Sons on student passes to avoid NS etc etc. This really gave us proper PRs a bad name amongst the locals and the Gahmen have cotten on to this. If you do apply for PR and they see on your application form that you have a Son who you are not including in the PR application I would virtually guarantee your apllication will be refused at the first hurdle.

All advice and comments appreciated.

Thanks

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Jun 2011 9:51 am

^^^^
+1 Spot on.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

phizzer15
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Post by phizzer15 » Wed, 15 Jun 2011 7:01 pm

You guys are awesome. I guess I'm used to a system that is pretty black and white and if you tick the boxes, you get what you apply for.

My wife also believes that female foreigners sponsored by male locals are more likely to have their PR approved than female citizens sponsoring male foreigners. Read into that what you will ;)

Seems I'll take my EP, sponsor my son on my EP and make it pretty obvious to Singapore government we're not permanent.

I do miss living in Singapore. Despite the, humidity, crowds, kiasu and Singlish which drives me nuts, I do miss it.

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Mad Scientist
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Post by Mad Scientist » Thu, 16 Jun 2011 3:57 am

phizzer15 wrote:You guys are awesome. I guess I'm used to a system that is pretty black and white and if you tick the boxes, you get what you apply for.

My wife also believes that female foreigners sponsored by male locals are more likely to have their PR approved than female citizens sponsoring male foreigners. Read into that what you will ;)

Seems I'll take my EP, sponsor my son on my EP and make it pretty obvious to Singapore government we're not permanent.

I do miss living in Singapore. Despite the, humidity, crowds, kiasu and Singlish which drives me nuts, I do miss it.
Yes , I agree with you . In Oz, the agencies will guide you on how to meet those guidelines. The point system works wonder and there is no other hidden guideline at all. Having said that SG Gahmen does not work that way. Yes, there are guidelines to be adhered to but that is it. Changing the goalpost ever so often and their best one line statement is " Every application will be based on its own merits"
What does that mean ?
Your guess is as good as mine.
What we do here is to compile and gather all infos. Then on, based on the prevailing guidelines we try to make some sense into it.
That is all we do.
BTW on what your wife's assumption.... aahh is not true. Yes there are but not on what she observe. Well, that will be another topic, wouldn't it.?

Let's us know how you get along. If you need more info. Howl and someone will try to help you out
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

phizzer15
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Post by phizzer15 » Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:10 pm

Well gentleman, it's now happening.

Got the interview, got the job, signed the paperwork. Now to apply for EP.

Still curious what to do with our two sons, whether I sponsor them on my EP, or my wife as a citizen sponsors them.

I want to avoid PR and we want the boys to avoid NS.

We were told that as their mother is a citizen, we have already broken the law by not registering them! I notice on my EP application form I'm required to give details of my wife. So one way or another, can't hide the fact my sons have a Sinagporean mother.

Appreciate your advice guys.....

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Mad Scientist
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Post by Mad Scientist » Sun, 03 Jun 2012 8:37 am

phizzer15 wrote:Well gentleman, it's now happening.

Got the interview, got the job, signed the paperwork. Now to apply for EP.

Still curious what to do with our two sons, whether I sponsor them on my EP, or my wife as a citizen sponsors them.

I want to avoid PR and we want the boys to avoid NS.

We were told that as their mother is a citizen, we have already broken the law by not registering them! I notice on my EP application form I'm required to give details of my wife. So one way or another, can't hide the fact my sons have a Sinagporean mother.

Appreciate your advice guys.....
Who told you by not registering you have broken the law?
If the child is born overseas, you have the choice of to register or otherwise for the child.
No, you have not broken the law. Correct me if I am wrong on this.
You can apply your children once you received your EP as DP pass holders
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

phizzer15
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Post by phizzer15 » Sun, 03 Jun 2012 11:37 am

My new boss told me that! ;)

Do you have any advice as to which is better, PEP or EP?

I'm worried PEP might be a signal to my employer I don't tend to hang around too long, but I see with one PEP application I can sponsor my two sons straight away.

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Post by Mad Scientist » Sun, 03 Jun 2012 2:21 pm

phizzer15 wrote:My new boss told me that! ;)

Do you have any advice as to which is better, PEP or EP?

I'm worried PEP might be a signal to my employer I don't tend to hang around too long, but I see with one PEP application I can sponsor my two sons straight away.
Mate, that is alot a BS from your boss.
It is an entitlement to register your two sons as a Sger that were born overseas from a parent of SG descent. That does not necessarily states that you must. It is a benefit but not a given and it surely is not a must.
PEP will be ideal and the boys will go under DPs but EP will work just fine too.
As long as you do not inform ICA about your child status , you will be fine.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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