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Do you agree:China and America-Rising Dragon, Bleeding Eagle

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 May 2011 3:16 pm

You also have to remember, manthink was also one-third of the unholy alliance a while back with Eau2011 & Aunt Batty........

:-k

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 27 May 2011 3:22 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Manthink wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:I don't need to know Chinese to know about China's economic system


I may have mis-read this statement, but it does neatly explain why some here continued to hold cold-war era perception about China and its system today.


??



There is a wealth of current information about the economy in China. Also plenty of non-transparent things hidden by the government, like what the real GDP is, inflation rate, etc.


SE, do you recall about me referring to perception issue earlier?

The nature of human emotion is derived from perception and prejudice.

We can have all the facts & figures true or false to backup our claims.
But we will still have difficult time convincing a change of a hardened perception.

So what's the solution for this emotive thing? -> Time & understandings.
But are the understandings? -> Culture is one of them.

And this is where I am coming from when referring to your remark about not having to understand Chinese. That concerns me.

When China's politician Wang Qishan recently comment:
"The United States is the world's number one superpower, and the American people, they're very simple people.." he didn't meant that literally.

There is a reason for that....

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 27 May 2011 3:30 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You also have to remember, manthink was also one-third of the unholy alliance a while back with Eau2011 & Aunt Batty........

:-k


LOL! Allow me to address that statement.

There had never been a "unholy Axis" of evil people in a bondage out to main/kill/murder/slaughter those fine-people of the Free Expat Singapore World.

On the contrary, it is precisely this freedom that opens the opportunity to share view. That is what I am here for.

So, please don't make me feel unwelcome, People of Singapore Expat Forum

:lol:

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 27 May 2011 3:46 pm

Manthink wrote:And this is where I am coming from when referring to your remark about not having to understand Chinese. That concerns me.


He meant he didn't have to learn the language to understand how the Chinese economy works.

What does concern me is people always claiming that "you have to have lived there" or "you have to know blah, blah, blah" to understand how certain things work. This is true for many things but not all the time. This also seems to be a favorite rebuttal by some people to defend how things are the way they are.

PS

I'm glad this thread is turning out to be more civilized than how it started...so far.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 May 2011 3:51 pm

Manthink wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:You also have to remember, manthink was also one-third of the unholy alliance a while back with Eau2011 & Aunt Batty........

:-k


LOL! Allow me to address that statement.

There had never been a "unholy Axis" of evil people in a bondage out to main/kill/murder/slaughter those fine-people of the Free Expat Singapore World.

On the contrary, it is precisely this freedom that opens the opportunity to share view. That is what I am here for.

So, please don't make me feel unwelcome, People of Singapore Expat Forum

:lol:


You might want to read it a little be closer......

Where did I mention "Axis"? :-|

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 27 May 2011 3:57 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You might want to read it a little be closer......

Where did I mention "Axis"? :-|


War era metaphor mix up!

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 27 May 2011 4:02 pm

nakatago wrote: He meant he didn't have to learn the language to understand how the Chinese economy works.


I beg to differ if this is SE's outlook.

It is not unlike "we against them" mentality.

IMO, then there will NEVER be a convergent of ideas nor appreciating the difference.

If we were to flip the coin, say, the Chinese claims that they understand Africa's issue without having to live there, or the Russian knows the solution(s) to US debt problem without the need to understand English nor the American people.

Does all above sound convincing? Sad isn't it?

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 27 May 2011 4:10 pm

nakatago wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:You might want to read it a little be closer......

Where did I mention "Axis"? :-|


War era metaphor mix up!


Actually my indent was deliberate.

I borrow the idea from George W. Bush's "Axis of Evil" and "either you are with us, or you are with the them" ?

So do we prefer George W. Bush's "we vs them" attitude?

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 27 May 2011 4:11 pm

Manthink wrote:
nakatago wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:You might want to read it a little be closer......

Where did I mention "Axis"? :-|


War era metaphor mix up!


Actually my indent was deliberate.

I borrow the idea from George W. Bush's "Axis of Evil" and "either you are with us, or you are with the them" ?

So do we prefer George W. Bush's "we vs them" attitude?


oh man, don't go there...

this should be the only 'axis of whatever' that would be admissible: http://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 27 May 2011 4:37 pm

Manthink wrote:SE, do you recall about me referring to perception issue earlier?

The nature of human emotion is derived from perception and prejudice.

I think it is the other way around.


We can have all the facts & figures true or false to backup our claims.
But we will still have difficult time convincing a change of a hardened perception.

No objection for the above statement but I would rather say "we may".

So what's the solution for this emotive thing? -> Time & understandings.
But are the understandings? -> Culture is one of them.

And this is where I am coming from when referring to your remark about not having to understand Chinese. That concerns me.

I have no objection again to agree with this (leaving aside the practical aspects) but have a feeling:
1. you are barking up the wrong tree
2. It is rather immature to reject some most obvious facts so where will this lead us in this kind of discussion?


When China's politician Wang Qishan recently comment:
"The United States is the world's number one superpower, and the American people, they're very simple people.." he didn't meant that literally.

There is a reason for that....
I missing here the relevancy of the above to this discussion.


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Postby JR8 » Fri, 27 May 2011 4:40 pm

nakatago wrote:this should be the only 'axis of whatever' that would be admissible: http://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I


Hilarious, thanks for that :lol:

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 27 May 2011 6:12 pm

Manthink wrote:And this is where I am coming from when referring to your remark about not having to understand Chinese. That concerns me.


Be concerned all you wish. Using just plain English, I recently spoke to a Singaporean Chinese who has handled commercial land transactions in Singapore for decades. He and 11 others formed a company to invest in China real estate. As you know, the so called 'free market' in China doesn't just let a foreign company come in and do business... you need a Chinese partner company. Before it was all said and done, these experienced investors, who also thought they knew the financial ropes in China, found themselves with none of their investment and no property... all taken by the Chinese 'partner', with no recourse available under the sham that passes for Chinese courts.

I've heard dozens of stories to illustrate just this one example of corrupt ethics. All in English.

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Postby Manthink » Fri, 27 May 2011 6:37 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:these experienced investors (Singaporean Chinese), who also thought they knew the financial ropes in China, found themselves with none of their investment and no property... all taken by the Chinese 'partner', with no recourse available under the sham that passes for Chinese courts. I've heard dozens of stories to illustrate just this one example of corrupt ethics. All in English.


I am curious:

Were your so-called experienced investors able to establish 关系 [guanxi] with the right people in China?

Why are the communication/contract in English? Where they able to converse with the locals in 普通话 ?[Mandarin].

Obviously your investor friends had a lot to learn when comes to investing in cut-throat market like China.

And mind you, corruption/scam/cheaters/con-men are part & parcel of any free economy...not just in "Communist" China.

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Postby oeloel » Fri, 27 May 2011 7:04 pm

Manthink wrote:And mind you, corruption/scam/cheaters/con-men are part & parcel of any free economy

China is just a student in these area.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 27 May 2011 7:11 pm

oeloel wrote:
Manthink wrote:And mind you, corruption/scam/cheaters/con-men are part & parcel of any free economy

China is just a student in these area.


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