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I am really unhappy

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slayerk2000
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I am really unhappy

Postby slayerk2000 » Fri, 06 May 2011 8:37 pm

Actually, I'm not really unhappy, but just got a mail saying my EPEC application for long term visit pass (one year) was rejected on the grounds of...well, no reason really...just 'after careful consideration'.

Even though my passport is stamped with 3 months social and leisure visit which means I can safely stay for at least a good six months of the year, maybe even 9 months by going away and coming back they still don't give me a year long pass?...

Can I appeal this?

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 06 May 2011 8:59 pm

You wrote:
'My experience has been the following timeline:

Applied for EPEC on 18th Feb, chased up on it on Mar 9th, got an email on Mar 11th saying they needed the scan of the original degree (in Latin) and not the officailly stamped transcript (in English) and got the approval email on March 18th and got it a week later in the post.'
sutra517863.html&highlight=#517863

What changed?

p.s. I really doubt you're going to border hop and so get to stay in SG for 9 months of the year. Do you think ICA won't spot that?

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Postby slayerk2000 » Fri, 06 May 2011 9:09 pm

I got the EPEC already, just not the long term social visit pass. The application for the social visit pass was the one that got refused..

The point about the nine month thing was to highlight the fact it wouldn't have been a big deal for them to approve a one year pass for me when I could stay for 6 months (easy) or 9 months (given some thought)..

Of course I'm not going to stay for 89 days, do a u-turn and stay for another 89 days and do another u-turn and stay 89 days again.. I doubt the ICA or any other immigration is that stupid..

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 06 May 2011 10:08 pm

OIC apologies for misreading that.

I really hate to hear this apparent double-standard where people get EPEC's but then are refused LTVPs. It really sucks!

What kind of image must it create of SG 'Yes, come and job-hunt, er no despite you having moved your life here we've now changed our mind'?

You won't border-hop that long... no way, but good luck

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Postby revhappy » Fri, 06 May 2011 10:14 pm

JR8 wrote:OIC apologies for misreading that.

I really hate to hear this apparent double-standard where people get EPEC's but then are refused LTVPs. It really sucks!

What kind of image must it create of SG 'Yes, come and job-hunt, er no despite you having moved your life here we've now changed our mind'?

You won't border-hop that long... no way, but good luck


I guess earlier the thinking was MoM's job is just to evaluate whether a person has the credentials to work in SG or not and then the ICA would actually make the decision of whether they need this foreigner to come to SG or not.

But recently we just read a forummer for AU who had his EPEC rejected inspite of have numerous years of experience. So may be now they are tightening at MoM level of giving EPEC, itself.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 06 May 2011 10:33 pm

revhappy wrote:
JR8 wrote:OIC apologies for misreading that.

I really hate to hear this apparent double-standard where people get EPEC's but then are refused LTVPs. It really sucks!

What kind of image must it create of SG 'Yes, come and job-hunt, er no despite you having moved your life here we've now changed our mind'?

You won't border-hop that long... no way, but good luck


I guess earlier the thinking was MoM's job is just to evaluate whether a person has the credentials to work in SG or not and then the ICA would actually make the decision of whether they need this foreigner to come to SG or not.

But recently we just read a forummer for AU who had his EPEC rejected inspite of have numerous years of experience. So may be now they are tightening at MoM level of giving EPEC, itself.


So then it should be made very clear on applying for an EPEC that it does not mean you will be granted any kind of LTVP.

What do you think the revised tag-line should be?

'Come to Singapore with an EPEC! and spend up to a year looking for your ideal career opportunity! (though we reserve the right after you having moved your home and life here to give you no visa at all and arrest you if you're still here after 90 days)'?

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Postby revhappy » Fri, 06 May 2011 10:43 pm

JR8 wrote:
revhappy wrote:
JR8 wrote:OIC apologies for misreading that.

I really hate to hear this apparent double-standard where people get EPEC's but then are refused LTVPs. It really sucks!

What kind of image must it create of SG 'Yes, come and job-hunt, er no despite you having moved your life here we've now changed our mind'?

You won't border-hop that long... no way, but good luck


I guess earlier the thinking was MoM's job is just to evaluate whether a person has the credentials to work in SG or not and then the ICA would actually make the decision of whether they need this foreigner to come to SG or not.

But recently we just read a forummer for AU who had his EPEC rejected inspite of have numerous years of experience. So may be now they are tightening at MoM level of giving EPEC, itself.


So then it should be made very clear on applying for an EPEC that it does not mean you will be granted any kind of LTVP.

What do you think the revised tag-line should be?

'Come to Singapore with an EPEC! and spend up to a year looking for your ideal career opportunity! (though we reserve the right after you having moved your home and life here to give you no visa at all and arrest you if you're still here after 90 days)'?


I believe the EPEC is just a certificate and not a visa. The correct procedure is once the EPEC is approved the applicant should immediately apply for an LTSVP and only on its approval board the flight. Once they have the 1 yr LTSVP approved they have a whole year to look for job.

I think it is very clearly mentioned on the EPEC. By just getting the EPEC approved, the applicant shouldn't take it for granted that they will get the LTSVP.

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Postby slayerk2000 » Fri, 06 May 2011 11:23 pm

True, they are two different departments, but as a whole, they should expressly point out on the EPEC website that, it does not guarantee an LTVP..

As far as I can remember, on the EPEC site, it only says, you 'can' apply for LTVP, even making the wording sound like you'll get it no problem..


Think about it this way, what good is the EPEC? It can't get me a LTVP..
I'm pretty damn sure it can't get me any low level work pass of any sort (even if I'm 'ELIGIBLE' for it- I'm sure it'll cite something like we rejected you because the position can be filled by a local)

If I was a rocket scientist/IT guru/a person who can piss out drinking water wanting to work here, I wouldn't NEED an EPEC as the company applying will surely get a work pass, EPEC or no EPEC..

So right now the EPEC only states your degree and that's all it does- for me anyway..

Singapore's immigration policy is quickly becoming a laughable farce, and they better contain it before it gets out..
At least I can go back to my old job in another country.. I really feel for guys like SMS's employees who've worked here for 3 years and now told to f-off... :cry:

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Postby slayerk2000 » Fri, 06 May 2011 11:29 pm

revhappy wrote:I think it is very clearly mentioned on the EPEC. By just getting the EPEC approved, the applicant shouldn't take it for granted that they will get the LTSVP.


I would love to know the criteria for the LTVP from the EPEC route.
Are they basing it on age? education? because that's the only info on an EPEC...

I will write to them asking for a reason, although I know that'll be to no avail, but I like complaining to Singaporeans, especially now.. :)

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 07 May 2011 2:16 am

revhappy wrote:I believe the EPEC is just a certificate and not a visa. The correct procedure is once the EPEC is approved the applicant should immediately apply for an LTSVP and only on its approval board the flight. Once they have the 1 yr LTSVP approved they have a whole year to look for job.

I think it is very clearly mentioned on the EPEC. By just getting the EPEC approved, the applicant shouldn't take it for granted that they will get the LTSVP.


Yes you're right, it is not a visa itself. Just I expect that most people (myself included) would be hard pressed to understand the idea of the government giving you leave to enter on one basis, but then later saying you can't. I didn't understand the nuance between MOM approving you and ICA refusing you, and despite buckets of time here on this forum since that time.... I still can't rationalise the disconnect.

When I got my EPEC (end '97) I don't recall there being any doubt I'd get an LTVP. As an inherent forward planner there is no way I'd pack up my home and take that risk. Also, and I am less clear on this now, I don't recall there being any suggestion I could or should apply for my LTVP before departure from home country. You know, it is hazy know, but I actually don't recall being able to apply for an LTVP online at all (at least your initial one, maybe not so for a renewal).

So maybe that is the new moral? Get an EPEC but get the LTVP IPA before even planning a move? Wrapping up my home took 2 months, maybe 3+ if I include psychological readiness.

...anyway, all grist for the mill...

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 07 May 2011 2:27 am

slayerk2000 wrote:
revhappy wrote:I think it is very clearly mentioned on the EPEC. By just getting the EPEC approved, the applicant shouldn't take it for granted that they will get the LTSVP.


I would love to know the criteria for the LTVP from the EPEC route.
Are they basing it on age? education? because that's the only info on an EPEC...

I will write to them asking for a reason, although I know that'll be to no avail, but I like complaining to Singaporeans, especially now.. :)



I definitely had to provide proof of established income too. The area of focus would seem to be, what qualifies you for an EPEC but subsequently disqualifies you from an LTVP.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 07 May 2011 10:31 am

Let us know when you get the answer. Just so we can check it against all the other answers that were the same. :wink:

You all are forgetting a very simple premise. The EPEC is not to provide you with a year to find a job. In fact it is NOTHING of the sort. Where did you get that information from?

The EPEC is an Employment Pass Eligibility Certificate that says that your credentials will not prevent you from obtaining a job here. This means that only ONE HURDLE has been surmounted. There are still the other two hurdles that must also be passed in order to get the job.

Number two: You must be applying for a job for which there are no or few locals with the same or similar qualifications to do the job.

Number three: The company must have a good record and sufficient local work force and been in operation for a while to be able to pass muster as well.

Nowhere does the EPEC say your are guaranteed a year to do this.

What ICA says is that they CAN give up to one year for you to do this but this is entirely up to their discretion. Depending on where you are from, they may feel that you don't have the wherewithal to maintain for 12 months without an income. They have their methods and reasons but to keep from getting tailor made applications, they don't reveal their criteria, and rightly so.

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 07 May 2011 10:55 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The EPEC is an Employment Pass Eligibility Certificate that says that your credentials will not prevent you from obtaining a job here. This means that only ONE HURDLE has been surmounted. There are still the other two hurdles that must also be passed in order to get the job.

Number two: You must be applying for a job for which there are no or few locals with the same or similar qualifications to do the job.

Number three: The company must have a good record and sufficient local work force and been in operation for a while to be able to pass muster as well.

Nowhere does the EPEC say your are guaranteed a year to do this.

What ICA says is that they CAN give up to one year for you to do this but this is entirely up to their discretion. Depending on where you are from, they may feel that you don't have the wherewithal to maintain for 12 months without an income. They have their methods and reasons but to keep from getting tailor made applications, they don't reveal their criteria, and rightly so.


+1 :D

Some people make it like it is their birthright to be awarded x, y or z .. not offence to anybody ..

And upon rejection, they go on to initiate rant mode .. :D

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Postby slayerk2000 » Sat, 07 May 2011 1:38 pm

C'mon guys, I never said Singapore owed me this pass, nor did I ever mistake an EPEC to mean a guaranteed LTVP. I've been checking this forum long enough to know.

What I am saying is the process leaves a lot to be desired for.. I looked at the EPEC site again, and it may be a while for you guys, but it actually expressly mentions one can stay up to a year with an EPEC! Is this some sort of Singlish I don't understand? Here it is:

''The Employment Pass Eligibility Certificate (EPEC) allows foreigners to stay in Singapore for up to one year to facilitate their job search in Singapore. Successful EPEC applicants are required to apply for a one-year Visit Pass from the Immigration and Checkpoint Authority (ICA) to allow them to stay in Singapore.

Note that the certificate is not a work pass and does not allow the holder to work in Singapore. Upon securing employment, the employer is required to submit an Employment Pass application to the Work Pass Division for consideration. You can only start work after the Employment Pass application has been approved.

The EPEC is issued on a one-time basis and is non-renewable''


Am I right in saying it should expressly mention, an EPEC does not equal one year LTVP?

Now before resident mood-dampeners (''no offence'') shoot me for ranting and complaining when something doesn't go my way, I have to clarify that I never thought EPEC = LTVP, but their wording does indeed suck major balls..

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Postby revhappy » Sat, 07 May 2011 1:58 pm

I get your point. It is easy to be mistaken that securing EPEC approval means you have what it takes to make it in SG and then applying for the LTSVP is a mere formality. Maybe thats how it was during the good old days, but not anymore.


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